6 ms·

The way I see it, at least in France, it's not really a question of religion. "The rich" are thought to have acquired their wealth doing dubious things, mostly

The way I see it, at least in France, it's not really a question of religion. "The rich" are thought to have acquired their wealth doing dubious things, mostly by "exploiting the poor". There's also a very strongly egalitarian way of thinking, as in pretty much everybody is interchangeable. So, if someone does better than somebody else, it's likely because of something "unfair" (or luck) and not thanks to being more competent.

zimpenfish 2y ago
> "The rich" are thought to have acquired their wealth doing dubious things, mostly by "exploiting the poor". To be fair, that's probably true in the vast majority of cases.
- vladvasiliu 2y ago
  I've never personally known any "very rich" people so I can't comment on them. But the perception I'm talking about applies even to "reasonably confortable" people. Think your random engineer making 100k a year (which is a "good" salary in these parts). Basically, someone with some form of STEM degree. I doubt most of these people are doing anything shady. Plus, this kind of income doesn't really give them any kind of financial independence: they wouldn't be able to afford not having a job.
  - teamonkey 2y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petite_bourgeoisie https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petite_bourgeoisie
  - zimpenfish 2y ago
    > I doubt most of these people [random engineer making 100k a year] are doing anything shady. I guess it depends what your level of "shady" is - I know a bunch of people in that kind of range who were all about "optimising their tax" (which I would consider to be "tax evasion" - morally wrong even if it is legal at the time.)
    - vladms 2y ago
      You know "optimizing" means different things for different people. For example: France offers specific saving deposits with guaranteed interest rate and non-taxed. If a normal saving deposit would be taxed and has similar interest rate, "optimizing their tax" means just using the that specific deposit. There are many other schemes that I can't believe they exist (example: in France if you create an investment account, after 5 years of the account existence you are not taxed on the gains! So what you can do is "create account with 100 euro", "wait 5 years", "invest more / potentially do gains" - and you will not be taxed!!!) You will tell me "that is morally wrong!". I could agree with you, but I see nobody demanding better laws/regulations, probably because they don't know/care about details.
      - zimpenfish 2y ago
        > You will tell me "that is morally wrong!" No, I think the investment account with no tax on gains is fine. I'm talking about things like "create a company, take a salary that's just over the lowest tax threshold, get 0% infinite term company loans from yourself" - things that your average person wouldn't be doing (unlike the free-gains-account.)
        vladms 2y ago
        You mean something like described in this page: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/loan-schemes-and-the-loan-charge-an-overview/tax-avoidance-loan-schemes-and-the-loan-charge https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/loan-schemes-and-... ? This one seems illegal at least in UK. Do you know if it is different in other countries?
        zimpenfish 2y ago
        > This one seems illegal at least in UK. It wasn't for a long time though. There's a bunch of other similar schemes which caught famous people[0] when they were declared illegal by UKGOV. [0] https://www.theguardian.com/business/2012/jun/19/tax-scheme-jimmy-carr-hmrc https://www.theguardian.com/business/2012/jun/19/tax-scheme-...

zimpenfish 2y ago

> "The rich" are thought to have acquired their wealth doing dubious things, mostly by "exploiting the poor". To be fair, that's probably true in the vast majority of cases.

vladvasiliu 2y ago
I've never personally known any "very rich" people so I can't comment on them. But the perception I'm talking about applies even to "reasonably confortable" people. Think your random engineer making 100k a year (which is a "good" salary in these parts). Basically, someone with some form of STEM degree. I doubt most of these people are doing anything shady. Plus, this kind of income doesn't really give them any kind of financial independence: they wouldn't be able to afford not having a job.
- teamonkey 2y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petite_bourgeoisie https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petite_bourgeoisie
- zimpenfish 2y ago
  > I doubt most of these people [random engineer making 100k a year] are doing anything shady. I guess it depends what your level of "shady" is - I know a bunch of people in that kind of range who were all about "optimising their tax" (which I would consider to be "tax evasion" - morally wrong even if it is legal at the time.)
  - vladms 2y ago
    You know "optimizing" means different things for different people. For example: France offers specific saving deposits with guaranteed interest rate and non-taxed. If a normal saving deposit would be taxed and has similar interest rate, "optimizing their tax" means just using the that specific deposit. There are many other schemes that I can't believe they exist (example: in France if you create an investment account, after 5 years of the account existence you are not taxed on the gains! So what you can do is "create account with 100 euro", "wait 5 years", "invest more / potentially do gains" - and you will not be taxed!!!) You will tell me "that is morally wrong!". I could agree with you, but I see nobody demanding better laws/regulations, probably because they don't know/care about details.
    - zimpenfish 2y ago
      > You will tell me "that is morally wrong!" No, I think the investment account with no tax on gains is fine. I'm talking about things like "create a company, take a salary that's just over the lowest tax threshold, get 0% infinite term company loans from yourself" - things that your average person wouldn't be doing (unlike the free-gains-account.)
      - vladms 2y ago
        You mean something like described in this page: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/loan-schemes-and-the-loan-charge-an-overview/tax-avoidance-loan-schemes-and-the-loan-charge https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/loan-schemes-and-... ? This one seems illegal at least in UK. Do you know if it is different in other countries?
        zimpenfish 2y ago
        > This one seems illegal at least in UK. It wasn't for a long time though. There's a bunch of other similar schemes which caught famous people[0] when they were declared illegal by UKGOV. [0] https://www.theguardian.com/business/2012/jun/19/tax-scheme-jimmy-carr-hmrc https://www.theguardian.com/business/2012/jun/19/tax-scheme-...