4 ms·

You might want to look more at why people are against the waves of illegal immigration and less on the color of their skin.

mrtksn 2y ago
Illegal immigration is a BS term, make immigration legal if you don't want illegal immigrants. It's not like people choose the hard, dangerous and expensive ways instead of buying a Ryanair ticket. When the illegal immigrants BS doesn't hold they all start complaining about legal immigrants as with the UK and their core Brexit reason.
- worthless-trash 2y ago
  Immigration is legal though, in most countries.
- robertlagrant 2y ago
  > make immigration legal if you don't want illegal immigrants As a philosophy of law point, aren't laws passed to make things illegal if they aren't wanted? Rather than legal?
  - mrtksn 2y ago
    That's the point, illegal immigration is just a veil so some people can feel better for them selves. "it's not that I don't like them - I am not like that, its just that I don't want illegal immigration"
    - robertlagrant 2y ago
      I can understand this might make sense if race (or ethnicity) were the only factor in the world to consider, but since it's not, is there value in thinking as though it is?
      - mrtksn 2y ago
        What makes me think that it's about race(loosely speaking. IMHO it's more about xenophobia and feeling like losing privilege o identity as a nation etc) is that once you make the immigration legal they start complaining about numbers like in Britain. BTW I don't disagree with the people who don't want everyone be welcome, I just think that their solution ideas and demands are misguided. My observation is that people from various ethnicities can function in cohesion and are about the same when they are from a similar educational background and rarely have ethnical or racial issues among themselves and IMHO all the problems will be resolved if you let people naturally find their appropriate group they belong to instead of having BS like country borders and visas and DEI or race based positive discrimination etc.
        robertlagrant 2y ago
        Thanks for your reply. I think I agree with at least some of it, but it is still solely talking about race. The worries people have, especially in somewhere like Britain, is it's a country with a relatively small population compared to the level of immigration, and housing is an enormous problem. One outcome that I think can be to a considerable extent[0] attributed to high net immigration is that housing has become smaller (many houses divided into flats), and housing has become much more expensive. So anyone who already owned a house is sitting fairly pretty, as they get bouyed up by the housing market, but anyone looking to buy for the first time, or buy into a new market for the first time (e.g. moving to near schools for kids) is going to have a massive problem, as the competitive pressure has up-bidded housing and made it worthwhile to subdivide and sell/rent smaller dwellings. This could be all white people doing it (somewhere like Cornwall in the UK is mostly annoyed because other Brits buy holiday homes there, driving up prices for locals and their kids who are coming up) - it doesn't matter. The housing costs are what matter. And they, a bit like fuel, drive up everything else: NHS workers need higher salaries to just be able to live in many places, which drives up taxes. This isn't to avoid actual race/ethnicity-related tensions. But there's a giant clump of people who are just fed up with their money going far less far than their parents' and grandparents' money did when it comes to one of the fundamentals of life: housing yourself and your family. And their parents and grandparents are equally upset that their kids/grandkids have in a major sense a harder life than they did. [0] definitely not fully; there are multiple factors. But if you net import the equivalent of the population of Liverpool each year, and you aren't building a Liverpool each your to house them, it's obvious that prices will start shooting up.
- piltdownman 2y ago
  Well no, its not. Specifically in relation to Asylum Seekers contravening the EU Dublin Regulation and tearing up their passports on an intra-EU flight so they can claim Asylum and the associated social welfare in Ireland rather than France or Germany due to our much higher rates. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dublin_Regulation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dublin_Regulation Basically economic migrants - predominately young men from the middle east - disguising themselves as Refugees and taking social supports away from the families fleeing warzones.
  - mrtksn 2y ago
    That is one subset of immigration crime that is rightly frown upon and can be completely avoided abolition of the country borders concept that was introduced in the last 100 years or less. Want to help people in need? Instead of confining them into areas and then impose restriction on those and give some of them some money, help those in need. Or don't help, but at least don't pretend that you are bringing justice to the world without addressing the core problems. In other words, this is actually welfare fraud that happens to have a travel component.
    - Cumpiler69 2y ago
      >can be completely avoided abolition of the country borders Home break-ins can be avoided by abolishing locks on your front door and leaving them open for the public. You go first please.
      - mrtksn 2y ago
        I won’t reply to this strawman argument.
        Cumpiler69 2y ago
        It's the same champaign socialist argumentation you are using, just that it's not affecting you, but when it does affect you, you have no argument. The question was simple, why do you support illegal immigration in a country's borders as being OK, but not crossing in the borders of your house? It's easy to be virtuous and generous with other people's money/resources.
- CamouflagedKiwi 2y ago
  That's a ridiculous way of thinking about it. Anyone who says they don't want illegal immigrants isn't objecting simply because of the legal status, they think the process should be upheld which prevented those people from immigrating legally. It's the same reason we don't seek to improve crime rates by legalising theft. Sure, there'd be fewer people labelled as "criminal", but the original problem would remain (and in all probability would become worse).
  - mrtksn 2y ago
    And why the process of immigrating legally is more than buying a ticket and a security check at the border? Obviously, it is the reason that matters and the reason is not benign. People want other people to like people in certain way they and then castrate Alan Turing for illegal love. People want to have slaves then they have illegally free slaves problem. Why pretend that this is about upholding the law?
- rangestransform 2y ago
  It is within the right of every nation to determine who comes in and who doesn’t, by lethal force if necessary
nobodywillobsrv 2y ago
Even legal migration is bad now. The governments of Europe no longer hold a monopoly of violence. Terror groups and MENAPT groups have brought a diverse range of violent threats to people. Building a robot army to solve this is one viable solution that is hardware and software based.
- coldpepper 2y ago
  Building a robot army is a ridiculous idea. The efficient & practical way is to stop renewing residence and work visas, making acquisition of visas harder through complex demands of high language proficiency, and a high amount of money as proof-of-funds, perhaps requiring a local referral too. It's what countries that don't want immigrants but don't want to say it out loud do.
  - worthless-trash 2y ago
    They add job requirements (aka skilled migration) and lottery system on top too !

mrtksn 2y ago

Illegal immigration is a BS term, make immigration legal if you don't want illegal immigrants. It's not like people choose the hard, dangerous and expensive ways instead of buying a Ryanair ticket. When the illegal immigrants BS doesn't hold they all start complaining about legal immigrants as with the UK and their core Brexit reason.

worthless-trash 2y ago
Immigration is legal though, in most countries.
robertlagrant 2y ago
> make immigration legal if you don't want illegal immigrants As a philosophy of law point, aren't laws passed to make things illegal if they aren't wanted? Rather than legal?
- mrtksn 2y ago
  That's the point, illegal immigration is just a veil so some people can feel better for them selves. "it's not that I don't like them - I am not like that, its just that I don't want illegal immigration"
  - robertlagrant 2y ago
    I can understand this might make sense if race (or ethnicity) were the only factor in the world to consider, but since it's not, is there value in thinking as though it is?
    - mrtksn 2y ago
      What makes me think that it's about race(loosely speaking. IMHO it's more about xenophobia and feeling like losing privilege o identity as a nation etc) is that once you make the immigration legal they start complaining about numbers like in Britain. BTW I don't disagree with the people who don't want everyone be welcome, I just think that their solution ideas and demands are misguided. My observation is that people from various ethnicities can function in cohesion and are about the same when they are from a similar educational background and rarely have ethnical or racial issues among themselves and IMHO all the problems will be resolved if you let people naturally find their appropriate group they belong to instead of having BS like country borders and visas and DEI or race based positive discrimination etc.
      - robertlagrant 2y ago
        Thanks for your reply. I think I agree with at least some of it, but it is still solely talking about race. The worries people have, especially in somewhere like Britain, is it's a country with a relatively small population compared to the level of immigration, and housing is an enormous problem. One outcome that I think can be to a considerable extent[0] attributed to high net immigration is that housing has become smaller (many houses divided into flats), and housing has become much more expensive. So anyone who already owned a house is sitting fairly pretty, as they get bouyed up by the housing market, but anyone looking to buy for the first time, or buy into a new market for the first time (e.g. moving to near schools for kids) is going to have a massive problem, as the competitive pressure has up-bidded housing and made it worthwhile to subdivide and sell/rent smaller dwellings. This could be all white people doing it (somewhere like Cornwall in the UK is mostly annoyed because other Brits buy holiday homes there, driving up prices for locals and their kids who are coming up) - it doesn't matter. The housing costs are what matter. And they, a bit like fuel, drive up everything else: NHS workers need higher salaries to just be able to live in many places, which drives up taxes. This isn't to avoid actual race/ethnicity-related tensions. But there's a giant clump of people who are just fed up with their money going far less far than their parents' and grandparents' money did when it comes to one of the fundamentals of life: housing yourself and your family. And their parents and grandparents are equally upset that their kids/grandkids have in a major sense a harder life than they did. [0] definitely not fully; there are multiple factors. But if you net import the equivalent of the population of Liverpool each year, and you aren't building a Liverpool each your to house them, it's obvious that prices will start shooting up.
piltdownman 2y ago
Well no, its not. Specifically in relation to Asylum Seekers contravening the EU Dublin Regulation and tearing up their passports on an intra-EU flight so they can claim Asylum and the associated social welfare in Ireland rather than France or Germany due to our much higher rates. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dublin_Regulation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dublin_Regulation Basically economic migrants - predominately young men from the middle east - disguising themselves as Refugees and taking social supports away from the families fleeing warzones.
- mrtksn 2y ago
  That is one subset of immigration crime that is rightly frown upon and can be completely avoided abolition of the country borders concept that was introduced in the last 100 years or less. Want to help people in need? Instead of confining them into areas and then impose restriction on those and give some of them some money, help those in need. Or don't help, but at least don't pretend that you are bringing justice to the world without addressing the core problems. In other words, this is actually welfare fraud that happens to have a travel component.
  - Cumpiler69 2y ago
    >can be completely avoided abolition of the country borders Home break-ins can be avoided by abolishing locks on your front door and leaving them open for the public. You go first please.
    - mrtksn 2y ago
      I won’t reply to this strawman argument.
      - Cumpiler69 2y ago
        It's the same champaign socialist argumentation you are using, just that it's not affecting you, but when it does affect you, you have no argument. The question was simple, why do you support illegal immigration in a country's borders as being OK, but not crossing in the borders of your house? It's easy to be virtuous and generous with other people's money/resources.
CamouflagedKiwi 2y ago
That's a ridiculous way of thinking about it. Anyone who says they don't want illegal immigrants isn't objecting simply because of the legal status, they think the process should be upheld which prevented those people from immigrating legally. It's the same reason we don't seek to improve crime rates by legalising theft. Sure, there'd be fewer people labelled as "criminal", but the original problem would remain (and in all probability would become worse).
- mrtksn 2y ago
  And why the process of immigrating legally is more than buying a ticket and a security check at the border? Obviously, it is the reason that matters and the reason is not benign. People want other people to like people in certain way they and then castrate Alan Turing for illegal love. People want to have slaves then they have illegally free slaves problem. Why pretend that this is about upholding the law?
rangestransform 2y ago
It is within the right of every nation to determine who comes in and who doesn’t, by lethal force if necessary

nobodywillobsrv 2y ago

Even legal migration is bad now. The governments of Europe no longer hold a monopoly of violence. Terror groups and MENAPT groups have brought a diverse range of violent threats to people. Building a robot army to solve this is one viable solution that is hardware and software based.

coldpepper 2y ago
Building a robot army is a ridiculous idea. The efficient & practical way is to stop renewing residence and work visas, making acquisition of visas harder through complex demands of high language proficiency, and a high amount of money as proof-of-funds, perhaps requiring a local referral too. It's what countries that don't want immigrants but don't want to say it out loud do.
- worthless-trash 2y ago
  They add job requirements (aka skilled migration) and lottery system on top too !