4 ms·

> hereby they retain most of the equity upside but give majority voting control to a US buyer. Keen to see this opinion when the Chinese government demands the

by ta20240528 2y ago

> hereby they retain most of the equity upside but give majority voting control to a US buyer. Keen to see this opinion when the Chinese government demands the same from Apple. 'cos we're all equal, no?

bhhaskin 2y ago
They already do and it has been that way since "opening" up their markets.
kelnos 2y ago
The Chinese government carefully controls foreign access to its market already (unlike the US), and already bans quite a few foreign companies from operating on the Chinese Internet (again, unlike the US). I imagine Apple already complies with whatever they need to comply with in order to make the Chinese government happy. > 'cos we're all equal, no? No, we absolutely aren't. The Chinese government has ensured for decades now that foreign businesses have only tightly controlled access to the Chinese people while Chinese-owned (i.e., easily controllable by the Chinese government) businesses have advantages not given to outsiders. (And those outsiders need to open up a Chinese subsidiary that is majority-owned by Chinese investors/companies.) On the other hand, most Western countries have given Chinese companies near-unfettered access to their markets. If anything, this TikTok ban is actually making things more equal, if only by a tiny bit.
- licenede 2y ago
  Actually what’s scary for Apple, and really for all companies with assets or factories still in China is that recently China prevented Apple from shipping its own equipments out of China to India. China is so fearful of even more unemployments that it is now willing to upset one of its largest employer. Foxconn stops sending Chinese workers to India iPhone factories In addition, equipment shipments are delayed, potentially disrupting next-generation iPhone production in India. https://restofworld.org/2025/china-foxconn-factoriesfoxconn-stops-sending-chinese-workers-to-india-iphone-factories/ https://restofworld.org/2025/china-foxconn-factoriesfoxconn-... You really have to be braindead as a COO if you do not have contingency plan to move stuff out of China this year.
- bilekas 2y ago
  > If anything, this TikTok ban is actually making things more equal, if only by a tiny bit. I do t use tiktok and have no skin in the game as an EU resident, but setting a precedent for this kind of behaviour to permit clthe government to simply block anything it wants is basically following in CCPs footsteps, that's certainly not a good thing in my eyes.
  - kelnos 2y ago
    This is not a new precedent. The US government has placed foreign-ownership restrictions on media companies since before the public internet was a thing. The only difference here is that it's targeted at a specific company, but I'm not really up in arms about that, even though I think they definitely could have written the law without naming ByteDance or TikTok specifically.
    - themaninthedark 2y ago
      Not just media companies, the government block a Japanese company from buying US Steel. Not out of antitrust concerns but due to the foreign ownership aspect.
      - xp84 2y ago
        Yup, and that was done against one of our most loyal allies.
    - xcrunner529 2y ago
      Yep, but people don't pay attention to history anymore and their ignorance keeps us repeating it.
      - j33zusjuice 2y ago
        Did they ever?
        xcrunner529 2y ago
- usr1106 2y ago
  > unlike the US The US is not a master piece of freedom. Want to market or own foreign shares? Want to travel to Cuba? Have you gone through the crazy US border control process as a foreigner? Yes, China is absolutely worse. But the US is not a good example.
  - kelnos 2y ago
    I never claimed the US was perfect, just better. I think using it as an example is fine. No country is perfect by any metric; everything is a matter of comparison over who is better or worse on a particular thing. > Want to market or own foreign shares? ADRs work for that, no? > Want to travel to Cuba? Have you gone through the crazy US border control process as a foreigner? I agree those things are bad, but they have nothing to do with market access, which is the topic at hand.
  - dboreham 2y ago
    I have a London stock exchange trading account with Schwab. I think I opened it online. The only catch is that I can only deposit or withdraw funds via my US Schwab account.
- alfiedotwtf 2y ago
  > The Chinese government carefully controls foreign access to its market already (unlike the US) Is there any reason you’re skipping the past 40+ years of turmoil in the Middle East purely from the US trying to control oil fields? Because Iran would like a word with, and there’s a hell lot of other countries behind them waiting their turn
  - mingus88 2y ago
    Perhaps I misunderstand your point, but the US obviously doesn't have any issue meddling in other country's economies or political systems. The US also obviously allows foreigners to business in the US without many restrictions. Is this the "free market" I keep hearing about? I don't know. The OP was contrasting this with China, that does not allow foreigners access to their markets. As a regular American, quite honestly, I would like a bit of protectionism from the US, as I recently bought a house and had to compete with cash offers from Chinese banks. It's insane to me that we allow foreigners to buy property here, while our own citizens are being increasingly priced out of our own country.
    - alfiedotwtf 2y ago
      Isn’t that how laissez faire capitalism works - the person with the higher bid gets the sale, not based on central planned rules of which country the current administration is beefing with that day?
- PittleyDunkin 2y ago
  Well if we aren't going to get the actual fruits of capitalism I'm for damn sure going to fight it tooth and nail at home. Shit sucks and I can't think of anyone I trust less than an American capitalist.
tailsdog 2y ago
I'm pretty sure Meta apps, at least Facebook, are banned in China still. Apple complies with the Chinese government and removes banned apps otherwise it can not operate there. I think even Tiktok itself is banned in China, there is a special version just for the Chinese market so their consumers can not see global content.
- mitrevf 2y ago
  Im pretty sure there is no ban per se. They just say: "either put your servers in our jurisdiction or gtfo of here", to which Meta and co. voluntarily decide to not enter the market. CCP still advertises as open to foreign companies though
  - immibis 2y ago
    So does Europe btw and they comply with that.
- tw1984 2y ago
  There is no such ban. Microsoft operates tons of services in China. Internet companies just need to host all Chinese in China using an approved provider. This is the exact same requirement extended to Tiktok, for ages US tiktok data is stored in Oracle cloud with full audit access by appointed American firms.
  - yyyfb 2y ago
    Parent talks about Meta, you mention Microsoft. They are not in the same business. Meta is in the social networking domain, which the communist party in China has treated for years as a matter of national security. The "color revolutions" and the "Arab Spring" gave them good reason to believe that online social networks were a driver of societal change too powerful not to control. And they control it very very tightly.
    - tw1984 2y ago
      > Parent talks about Meta, you mention Microsoft. Meta is in the social networking domain Microsoft operated its own popular social network in China, called MSN Messenger. Tens of millions Chinese users were on that platform for like a decade until the release of mobile based WeChat. > which the communist party in China has treated for years as a matter of national security It is a matter of national security, we all saw what happened on twitter shortly before the 6th Jan 2021 attack. https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/documents/tweets-january-5-2021 https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/documents/tweets-january-5-2... https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/documents/tweets-january-6-2021 https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/documents/tweets-january-6-2... That is the exact reason why everyone agreed that TikTok must host all US data and its deployed recommendation algorithm code in the US with 3rd party audit access by an appointed US entity. The only question here is why should Meta and Google be exempted from the exact same rules if they want to operate their services in China.
Angostura 2y ago
If I recall correctly, Apple isn’t allowed to run iCloud services in China, they are run and controlled by a local company
raincole 2y ago
Chinese government demands a lot from US companies. Google left for a reason. Apple is quite a special case since iPhone ecosystem creates many jobs in China. If Apple managed to move jobs to India (or wherever cheap labor is), Chinese government will stop being nice to them. And even then, right now in China, iCloud service is run by Guizhou cloud, not Apple.
- JetSpiegel 2y ago
  > Chinese government demands a lot from US companies. Google left for a reason. Yeah, and that reason was incompetence, it's not for lack of trying.
bsder 2y ago
1) China already exerts massive control over all of their social medias via social credit censoring. 2) China absolutely did ban most external social media and forces those that remain to hold data locally. 3) China still has the Great Firewall that everybody forgets about. 4) "He does it too" is the argument a two year old uses and should be accorded the same level of respect.

bhhaskin 2y ago

They already do and it has been that way since "opening" up their markets.

kelnos 2y ago

The Chinese government carefully controls foreign access to its market already (unlike the US), and already bans quite a few foreign companies from operating on the Chinese Internet (again, unlike the US). I imagine Apple already complies with whatever they need to comply with in order to make the Chinese government happy. > 'cos we're all equal, no? No, we absolutely aren't. The Chinese government has ensured for decades now that foreign businesses have only tightly controlled access to the Chinese people while Chinese-owned (i.e., easily controllable by the Chinese government) businesses have advantages not given to outsiders. (And those outsiders need to open up a Chinese subsidiary that is majority-owned by Chinese investors/companies.) On the other hand, most Western countries have given Chinese companies near-unfettered access to their markets. If anything, this TikTok ban is actually making things more equal, if only by a tiny bit.

licenede 2y ago
Actually what’s scary for Apple, and really for all companies with assets or factories still in China is that recently China prevented Apple from shipping its own equipments out of China to India. China is so fearful of even more unemployments that it is now willing to upset one of its largest employer. Foxconn stops sending Chinese workers to India iPhone factories In addition, equipment shipments are delayed, potentially disrupting next-generation iPhone production in India. https://restofworld.org/2025/china-foxconn-factoriesfoxconn-stops-sending-chinese-workers-to-india-iphone-factories/ https://restofworld.org/2025/china-foxconn-factoriesfoxconn-... You really have to be braindead as a COO if you do not have contingency plan to move stuff out of China this year.
bilekas 2y ago
> If anything, this TikTok ban is actually making things more equal, if only by a tiny bit. I do t use tiktok and have no skin in the game as an EU resident, but setting a precedent for this kind of behaviour to permit clthe government to simply block anything it wants is basically following in CCPs footsteps, that's certainly not a good thing in my eyes.
- kelnos 2y ago
  This is not a new precedent. The US government has placed foreign-ownership restrictions on media companies since before the public internet was a thing. The only difference here is that it's targeted at a specific company, but I'm not really up in arms about that, even though I think they definitely could have written the law without naming ByteDance or TikTok specifically.
  - themaninthedark 2y ago
    Not just media companies, the government block a Japanese company from buying US Steel. Not out of antitrust concerns but due to the foreign ownership aspect.
    - xp84 2y ago
      Yup, and that was done against one of our most loyal allies.
  - xcrunner529 2y ago
    Yep, but people don't pay attention to history anymore and their ignorance keeps us repeating it.
    - j33zusjuice 2y ago
      Did they ever?
      - xcrunner529 2y ago
usr1106 2y ago
> unlike the US The US is not a master piece of freedom. Want to market or own foreign shares? Want to travel to Cuba? Have you gone through the crazy US border control process as a foreigner? Yes, China is absolutely worse. But the US is not a good example.
- kelnos 2y ago
  I never claimed the US was perfect, just better. I think using it as an example is fine. No country is perfect by any metric; everything is a matter of comparison over who is better or worse on a particular thing. > Want to market or own foreign shares? ADRs work for that, no? > Want to travel to Cuba? Have you gone through the crazy US border control process as a foreigner? I agree those things are bad, but they have nothing to do with market access, which is the topic at hand.
- dboreham 2y ago
  I have a London stock exchange trading account with Schwab. I think I opened it online. The only catch is that I can only deposit or withdraw funds via my US Schwab account.
alfiedotwtf 2y ago
> The Chinese government carefully controls foreign access to its market already (unlike the US) Is there any reason you’re skipping the past 40+ years of turmoil in the Middle East purely from the US trying to control oil fields? Because Iran would like a word with, and there’s a hell lot of other countries behind them waiting their turn
- mingus88 2y ago
  Perhaps I misunderstand your point, but the US obviously doesn't have any issue meddling in other country's economies or political systems. The US also obviously allows foreigners to business in the US without many restrictions. Is this the "free market" I keep hearing about? I don't know. The OP was contrasting this with China, that does not allow foreigners access to their markets. As a regular American, quite honestly, I would like a bit of protectionism from the US, as I recently bought a house and had to compete with cash offers from Chinese banks. It's insane to me that we allow foreigners to buy property here, while our own citizens are being increasingly priced out of our own country.
  - alfiedotwtf 2y ago
    Isn’t that how laissez faire capitalism works - the person with the higher bid gets the sale, not based on central planned rules of which country the current administration is beefing with that day?
PittleyDunkin 2y ago
Well if we aren't going to get the actual fruits of capitalism I'm for damn sure going to fight it tooth and nail at home. Shit sucks and I can't think of anyone I trust less than an American capitalist.

tailsdog 2y ago

I'm pretty sure Meta apps, at least Facebook, are banned in China still. Apple complies with the Chinese government and removes banned apps otherwise it can not operate there. I think even Tiktok itself is banned in China, there is a special version just for the Chinese market so their consumers can not see global content.

mitrevf 2y ago
Im pretty sure there is no ban per se. They just say: "either put your servers in our jurisdiction or gtfo of here", to which Meta and co. voluntarily decide to not enter the market. CCP still advertises as open to foreign companies though
- immibis 2y ago
  So does Europe btw and they comply with that.
tw1984 2y ago
There is no such ban. Microsoft operates tons of services in China. Internet companies just need to host all Chinese in China using an approved provider. This is the exact same requirement extended to Tiktok, for ages US tiktok data is stored in Oracle cloud with full audit access by appointed American firms.
- yyyfb 2y ago
  Parent talks about Meta, you mention Microsoft. They are not in the same business. Meta is in the social networking domain, which the communist party in China has treated for years as a matter of national security. The "color revolutions" and the "Arab Spring" gave them good reason to believe that online social networks were a driver of societal change too powerful not to control. And they control it very very tightly.
  - tw1984 2y ago
    > Parent talks about Meta, you mention Microsoft. Meta is in the social networking domain Microsoft operated its own popular social network in China, called MSN Messenger. Tens of millions Chinese users were on that platform for like a decade until the release of mobile based WeChat. > which the communist party in China has treated for years as a matter of national security It is a matter of national security, we all saw what happened on twitter shortly before the 6th Jan 2021 attack. https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/documents/tweets-january-5-2021 https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/documents/tweets-january-5-2... https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/documents/tweets-january-6-2021 https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/documents/tweets-january-6-2... That is the exact reason why everyone agreed that TikTok must host all US data and its deployed recommendation algorithm code in the US with 3rd party audit access by an appointed US entity. The only question here is why should Meta and Google be exempted from the exact same rules if they want to operate their services in China.

Angostura 2y ago

If I recall correctly, Apple isn’t allowed to run iCloud services in China, they are run and controlled by a local company

raincole 2y ago

Chinese government demands a lot from US companies. Google left for a reason. Apple is quite a special case since iPhone ecosystem creates many jobs in China. If Apple managed to move jobs to India (or wherever cheap labor is), Chinese government will stop being nice to them. And even then, right now in China, iCloud service is run by Guizhou cloud, not Apple.

JetSpiegel 2y ago
> Chinese government demands a lot from US companies. Google left for a reason. Yeah, and that reason was incompetence, it's not for lack of trying.

bsder 2y ago

1) China already exerts massive control over all of their social medias via social credit censoring. 2) China absolutely did ban most external social media and forces those that remain to hold data locally. 3) China still has the Great Firewall that everybody forgets about. 4) "He does it too" is the argument a two year old uses and should be accorded the same level of respect.