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> I'm not required to use social media and extractive business models Ofcourse you are not required. You also free to retire as a hermite in a remote island.

> I'm not required to use social media and extractive business models Ofcourse you are not required. You also free to retire as a hermite in a remote island. For anybody hoping to be a non-conspicuous part of society, refusing to condone abusive tech services extracts an ever growing toll.

Gormo 2y ago
You're equating avoiding mass-market social media with becoming a hermit on a remote island. But you're here, saying that on HN. I've seen people say similar things on Reddit, in IRC channels, on blogs, Gemlogs, Mastodon posts, and other similar venues, without realizing the irony of it.
- mixmastamyk 2y ago
  "We should improve society somewhat..." https://knowyourmeme.com/editorials/guides/what-is-the-we-should-improve-society-somewhat-comic-the-popular-panel-explained https://knowyourmeme.com/editorials/guides/what-is-the-we-sh...
  - Gormo 2y ago
    The previous comment was complaining that we can't improve the situation, as there are no viable alternatives, in a discussion that is taking place on one of the alternatives. That's the irony.
- openrisk 2y ago
  Bizarre stretch of logic to extract an irony. Meta platforms in particular (facebook and whatsapp) are in many countries an almost exclusive intermediary to any online communication. You are basically incapacitated if you do not use them.
  - Gormo 2y ago
    Well, no, all of those other forms of online communication exist globally, and can be used by anyone, anywhere.
    - openrisk 2y ago
      Thats true, but its theoretical. As an individual you frequently face a take it or leave it option. Have you ever tried to move an existing community e.g., from Whatsapp to Signal or can you do anything if an entire country has chosen to reside on Facebook? In the short term, you either accept defeat and learn to love the adtech bomb or you withdraw into the digital wilderness. In the long term... we are all dead.
      - Gormo 2y ago
        > Have you ever tried to move an existing community e.g., from Whatsapp to Signal or can you do anything if an entire country has chosen to reside on Facebook? What does an "entire country" have to do with it? People move online communities between platforms all the time -- and many communities have presences on multiple platforms. > In the short term, you either accept defeat and learn to love the adtech bomb or you withdraw into the digital wilderness. I'm just not seeing the argument here. Suppose you've got 50 users on Discord and would prefer to move to Matrix. So you post a link to the Matrix channel on your Discord server, lock stuff for further posting in Discord, and update external links and documents. People do this sort of stuff all the time without being "defeated".
        openrisk 2y ago
        > I'm just not seeing the argument here yeah, thats pretty clear. Because you choose to focus on cases where you do have agency to do something, e.g. its my discord and I am moving us to matrix - and goodbye to those who will not migrate. Now think about an established group where you are a simple member and you say, "hey folks, why don't we move to something that is better for us, no ads, no data collection, etc."? And they look at you with glazed eyes, and... shrug, and that is the end of the conversation. Now what Don Quixote? > What does an "entire country" have to do with it? In countries with high facebook/meta adoption if you want up-to-date information about an event or an establishment it may only exist on meta platforms. Only larger entities can afford to have an independent website, and many such sites are typically in a state of disrepair and neglect. As an individual trying to go against so-called network effects most of the time you have very little leverage. Its really fighting against wind mills.

Gormo 2y ago

You're equating avoiding mass-market social media with becoming a hermit on a remote island. But you're here, saying that on HN. I've seen people say similar things on Reddit, in IRC channels, on blogs, Gemlogs, Mastodon posts, and other similar venues, without realizing the irony of it.

mixmastamyk 2y ago
"We should improve society somewhat..." https://knowyourmeme.com/editorials/guides/what-is-the-we-should-improve-society-somewhat-comic-the-popular-panel-explained https://knowyourmeme.com/editorials/guides/what-is-the-we-sh...
- Gormo 2y ago
  The previous comment was complaining that we can't improve the situation, as there are no viable alternatives, in a discussion that is taking place on one of the alternatives. That's the irony.
openrisk 2y ago
Bizarre stretch of logic to extract an irony. Meta platforms in particular (facebook and whatsapp) are in many countries an almost exclusive intermediary to any online communication. You are basically incapacitated if you do not use them.
- Gormo 2y ago
  Well, no, all of those other forms of online communication exist globally, and can be used by anyone, anywhere.
  - openrisk 2y ago
    Thats true, but its theoretical. As an individual you frequently face a take it or leave it option. Have you ever tried to move an existing community e.g., from Whatsapp to Signal or can you do anything if an entire country has chosen to reside on Facebook? In the short term, you either accept defeat and learn to love the adtech bomb or you withdraw into the digital wilderness. In the long term... we are all dead.
    - Gormo 2y ago
      > Have you ever tried to move an existing community e.g., from Whatsapp to Signal or can you do anything if an entire country has chosen to reside on Facebook? What does an "entire country" have to do with it? People move online communities between platforms all the time -- and many communities have presences on multiple platforms. > In the short term, you either accept defeat and learn to love the adtech bomb or you withdraw into the digital wilderness. I'm just not seeing the argument here. Suppose you've got 50 users on Discord and would prefer to move to Matrix. So you post a link to the Matrix channel on your Discord server, lock stuff for further posting in Discord, and update external links and documents. People do this sort of stuff all the time without being "defeated".
      - openrisk 2y ago
        > I'm just not seeing the argument here yeah, thats pretty clear. Because you choose to focus on cases where you do have agency to do something, e.g. its my discord and I am moving us to matrix - and goodbye to those who will not migrate. Now think about an established group where you are a simple member and you say, "hey folks, why don't we move to something that is better for us, no ads, no data collection, etc."? And they look at you with glazed eyes, and... shrug, and that is the end of the conversation. Now what Don Quixote? > What does an "entire country" have to do with it? In countries with high facebook/meta adoption if you want up-to-date information about an event or an establishment it may only exist on meta platforms. Only larger entities can afford to have an independent website, and many such sites are typically in a state of disrepair and neglect. As an individual trying to go against so-called network effects most of the time you have very little leverage. Its really fighting against wind mills.