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This has me curious about ARC-AGI. Would it have been possible for OpenAI to have gamed ARC-AGI by seeing the first few examples and then quickly mechanical tu

This has me curious about ARC-AGI. Would it have been possible for OpenAI to have gamed ARC-AGI by seeing the first few examples and then quickly mechanical turking a training set, fine tuning their model, then proceeding with the rest of the evaluation? Are there other tricks they could have pulled? It feels like unless a model is being deployed to an impartial evaluator's completely air gapped machine, there's a ton of room for shenanigans, dishonesty, and outright cheating.

WiSaGaN 2y ago
In their benchmark, they have a tag "tuned" attached to their o3 result. I guess we need they to inform us of the exact meaning of it to gauge.
trott 2y ago
> This has me curious about ARC-AGI In the o3 announcement video, the president of ARC Prize said they'd be partnering with OpenAI to develop the next benchmark. > mechanical turking a training set, fine tuning their model You don't need mechanical turking here. You can use an LLM to generate a lot more data that's similar to the official training data, and then you can train on that. It sounds like "pulling yourself up by your bootstraps", but isn't. An approach to do this has been published, and it seems to be scaling very well with the amount of such generated training data (They won the 1st paper award)
- pastage 2y ago
  I know nothing about LLM training, but do you mean there is a solution to the issue of LLMs gaslighting each other? Sure this is a proven way of getting training data, but you can not get theorems and axioms right by generating different versions of them.
  - abrichr 2y ago
    I believe the paper being referenced is “Scaling Data-Constrained Language Models” (https://arxiv.org/abs/2305.16264 https://arxiv.org/abs/2305.16264). For correctness, you can use a solver to verify generated data.
  - trott 2y ago
    This is the paper: https://arxiv.org/abs/2411.02272 https://arxiv.org/abs/2411.02272 They won the 1st paper award: https://arcprize.org/2024-results https://arcprize.org/2024-results In their approach, the LLM generates inputs (images to be transformed) and solutions (Python programs that do the image transformations). The output images are created by applying the programs to the inputs. So there's a constraint on the synthetic data here that keeps it honest -- the Python interpreter.
riku_iki 2y ago
> OpenAI to have gamed ARC-AGI by seeing the first few examples not just few examples. o3 was evaluated on "semi-private" test, which was previously already used for evaluating OAI models, so OAI had access to it already for a long time.
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WiSaGaN 2y ago

In their benchmark, they have a tag "tuned" attached to their o3 result. I guess we need they to inform us of the exact meaning of it to gauge.

trott 2y ago

> This has me curious about ARC-AGI In the o3 announcement video, the president of ARC Prize said they'd be partnering with OpenAI to develop the next benchmark. > mechanical turking a training set, fine tuning their model You don't need mechanical turking here. You can use an LLM to generate a lot more data that's similar to the official training data, and then you can train on that. It sounds like "pulling yourself up by your bootstraps", but isn't. An approach to do this has been published, and it seems to be scaling very well with the amount of such generated training data (They won the 1st paper award)

pastage 2y ago
I know nothing about LLM training, but do you mean there is a solution to the issue of LLMs gaslighting each other? Sure this is a proven way of getting training data, but you can not get theorems and axioms right by generating different versions of them.
- abrichr 2y ago
  I believe the paper being referenced is “Scaling Data-Constrained Language Models” (https://arxiv.org/abs/2305.16264 https://arxiv.org/abs/2305.16264). For correctness, you can use a solver to verify generated data.
- trott 2y ago
  This is the paper: https://arxiv.org/abs/2411.02272 https://arxiv.org/abs/2411.02272 They won the 1st paper award: https://arcprize.org/2024-results https://arcprize.org/2024-results In their approach, the LLM generates inputs (images to be transformed) and solutions (Python programs that do the image transformations). The output images are created by applying the programs to the inputs. So there's a constraint on the synthetic data here that keeps it honest -- the Python interpreter.

riku_iki 2y ago

> OpenAI to have gamed ARC-AGI by seeing the first few examples not just few examples. o3 was evaluated on "semi-private" test, which was previously already used for evaluating OAI models, so OAI had access to it already for a long time.

deleted 2y ago

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