4 ms·

I actually think going back is a good idea. Throw in an almost free Raspberry Pi Pico, install a 6502-based machine emulator, make it launch at startup and stra

I actually think going back is a good idea. Throw in an almost free Raspberry Pi Pico, install a 6502-based machine emulator, make it launch at startup and straight away go full screen and you are good to go. I'm thinking about experimenting that with myself and my son when he is older. But he is of the impatient type so maybe this is a bad idea as vintage computers typically need more focus and research. Maybe a DOS emulator then. It has better tools and games.

ryandrake 2y ago
I always thought it would be cool to have a PC that you just turn on and in 200 milliseconds, you're at a Python REPL or something. Like the old Commodore 64 that booted you right to BASIC from ROM. No POST, no beep, no detecting this and initializing that. No fucking splash screen. Just power switch on and BAM, you're at the prompt. According to a Google search, a typical C64 was on in 3 seconds. Maybe I've got rose colored glasses about how long it took, because my recollection was that it was basically instant. Hell, my monitor can't even turn on in 3 seconds. You hit the power button and it gets busy doing... something... who knows what... not turning on, that's for sure.
- herval 2y ago
  our brains adapt for "better" fast - faster feedback loops, crisper images, higher resolution, etc - and it's really hard to go back. I'd imagine it's something around the reward system of the brain. I grew up with Z80s and CRT monitors, and my brain remembers Enduro as a vivid and fast game. Reality is completely different when you try it out for a second, after having lived in an era of iPhones and 8k displays. It's crazy how uncomfortable even a device from 5 years ago feels...
  - markus_zhang 2y ago
    This is what I'm afraid of. Back then I had the patience to tinker with a 8086 IBM PC (to no avail as my father wanted me to study for IOI which bored me out so he never taught me anything about computer) because it was the new thing and had some games I can play. Nowadays my 4 year old son is already hooked to my in-laws' Tiktok. We are trying to pull him off but unless they leave it's going to be difficult. I don't know what the future lies. I'm fully prepared that my son is going to have zero common interest with me.
- markus_zhang 2y ago
  I'm thinking what is a best solution for quick game programming. Python still seems to be a little heavy. What do you think? I used to read a few magazines that have Python game program listings which is very cool, but sadly it stopped publishing a few years ago.
  - vdupras 2y ago
    Shameless plug, but Dusk OS[1] is a Forth that boots near instantly. It runs on PC, EFI (Intel Macs too), Raspberry Pi models 1, 2, 3, Zero. It has a graphical stack. Still a bit underpowered, but enough to implement uxn[2], which many people use for writing fun little games. [1]: http://duskos.org/ http://duskos.org/ [2]: https://100r.co/site/uxn.html https://100r.co/site/uxn.html
    - markus_zhang 2y ago
      Thanks, that is really cool. I heard about Forth a few times on HN and it always struck me as something nerdy.
  - vertnerd 2y ago
    Here's another quirky angle: I am developing a C#-based virtual Forth machine (https://github.com/Eccentric-Anomalies/AMC-Forth https://github.com/Eccentric-Anomalies/AMC-Forth) that can be embedded in games made with the Godot engine. I am using it as the FMS for a spacecraft sim game that is my main project (https://tungstenmoon.com/ https://tungstenmoon.com/)
    - markus_zhang 2y ago
      Thanks, this is a very cool game by first glance. It reminds me of the moon landing game people used to play on mini computers.
- portercable 2y ago
  > Maybe I've got rose colored glasses about how long it took, because my recollection was that it was basically instant. It probably took several seconds for your CRT to get bright enough. At least that is my guess. (I had a similar recollection.)
- sras-me 2y ago
  > I always thought it would be cool to have a PC that you just turn on and in 200 milliseconds, you're at a Python REPL or something That is where I plan to go with SPADE, https://hackage.haskell.org/package/spade https://hackage.haskell.org/package/spade As you can see, it is currently written in Haskell, as a PoC. But I am re-writing it in Rust, for reasons that also include making it possible to do something like you ask for.
vekatimest 2y ago
Pedantic, but the Pico is a microcontroller that'd be running a very thin emulator and would have no operating system, so no concept of applications, "full screen" or video output at all. A Pi Zero would be great for that purpose, though.
- markus_zhang 2y ago
  Ah I didn't know about that. Yeah the zero looks like a much better option.
vunderba 2y ago
Might be a bit too bespoke, but there's a company that actually repurposes old industrial x86 motherboards and builds old DOS/Windows 9x PCs for modern usage. https://pixelx86.com https://pixelx86.com

ryandrake 2y ago

I always thought it would be cool to have a PC that you just turn on and in 200 milliseconds, you're at a Python REPL or something. Like the old Commodore 64 that booted you right to BASIC from ROM. No POST, no beep, no detecting this and initializing that. No fucking splash screen. Just power switch on and BAM, you're at the prompt. According to a Google search, a typical C64 was on in 3 seconds. Maybe I've got rose colored glasses about how long it took, because my recollection was that it was basically instant. Hell, my monitor can't even turn on in 3 seconds. You hit the power button and it gets busy doing... something... who knows what... not turning on, that's for sure.

herval 2y ago
our brains adapt for "better" fast - faster feedback loops, crisper images, higher resolution, etc - and it's really hard to go back. I'd imagine it's something around the reward system of the brain. I grew up with Z80s and CRT monitors, and my brain remembers Enduro as a vivid and fast game. Reality is completely different when you try it out for a second, after having lived in an era of iPhones and 8k displays. It's crazy how uncomfortable even a device from 5 years ago feels...
- markus_zhang 2y ago
  This is what I'm afraid of. Back then I had the patience to tinker with a 8086 IBM PC (to no avail as my father wanted me to study for IOI which bored me out so he never taught me anything about computer) because it was the new thing and had some games I can play. Nowadays my 4 year old son is already hooked to my in-laws' Tiktok. We are trying to pull him off but unless they leave it's going to be difficult. I don't know what the future lies. I'm fully prepared that my son is going to have zero common interest with me.
markus_zhang 2y ago
I'm thinking what is a best solution for quick game programming. Python still seems to be a little heavy. What do you think? I used to read a few magazines that have Python game program listings which is very cool, but sadly it stopped publishing a few years ago.
- vdupras 2y ago
  Shameless plug, but Dusk OS[1] is a Forth that boots near instantly. It runs on PC, EFI (Intel Macs too), Raspberry Pi models 1, 2, 3, Zero. It has a graphical stack. Still a bit underpowered, but enough to implement uxn[2], which many people use for writing fun little games. [1]: http://duskos.org/ http://duskos.org/ [2]: https://100r.co/site/uxn.html https://100r.co/site/uxn.html
  - markus_zhang 2y ago
    Thanks, that is really cool. I heard about Forth a few times on HN and it always struck me as something nerdy.
- vertnerd 2y ago
  Here's another quirky angle: I am developing a C#-based virtual Forth machine (https://github.com/Eccentric-Anomalies/AMC-Forth https://github.com/Eccentric-Anomalies/AMC-Forth) that can be embedded in games made with the Godot engine. I am using it as the FMS for a spacecraft sim game that is my main project (https://tungstenmoon.com/ https://tungstenmoon.com/)
  - markus_zhang 2y ago
    Thanks, this is a very cool game by first glance. It reminds me of the moon landing game people used to play on mini computers.
portercable 2y ago
> Maybe I've got rose colored glasses about how long it took, because my recollection was that it was basically instant. It probably took several seconds for your CRT to get bright enough. At least that is my guess. (I had a similar recollection.)
sras-me 2y ago
> I always thought it would be cool to have a PC that you just turn on and in 200 milliseconds, you're at a Python REPL or something That is where I plan to go with SPADE, https://hackage.haskell.org/package/spade https://hackage.haskell.org/package/spade As you can see, it is currently written in Haskell, as a PoC. But I am re-writing it in Rust, for reasons that also include making it possible to do something like you ask for.

vekatimest 2y ago

Pedantic, but the Pico is a microcontroller that'd be running a very thin emulator and would have no operating system, so no concept of applications, "full screen" or video output at all. A Pi Zero would be great for that purpose, though.

markus_zhang 2y ago
Ah I didn't know about that. Yeah the zero looks like a much better option.

vunderba 2y ago

Might be a bit too bespoke, but there's a company that actually repurposes old industrial x86 motherboards and builds old DOS/Windows 9x PCs for modern usage. https://pixelx86.com https://pixelx86.com