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The author claims, "Internet surveillance, the algorithmic polarization of social media, predatory app stores, and extractive business models have eroded the fr

by marbro 2y ago

The author claims, "Internet surveillance, the algorithmic polarization of social media, predatory app stores, and extractive business models have eroded the freedoms the personal computer once promised, effectively ending the PC era for most tech consumers." I'm not required to use social media and extractive business models. Intenet surveillance is lamentable but I don't see why he thinks app stores are predatory. The PC is still mostly a force for freedom. The privacy losses are more than offset by the gains of communicating with everyone on the planet.

9283409232 2y ago
> I'm not required to use social media and extractive business models. Most people do use them though. > The privacy losses are more than offset by the gains of communicating with everyone on the planet. I completely disagree. Most people aren't actually communicating. At least not in any form that matters. The drastic increase in loneliness and depression that correlates with the increase in connectivity should at least show that more social media doesn't mean more happy.
- johnnyanmac 2y ago
  Sadly relatable to a lot of real life. Modern people don't talk "to" each other some portion of the time. They talk past each other in this mimicry of discussion.
hn3er1q 2y ago
That's kinda what I was thinking too. There is a privacy loss for sure, but the average consumer also gained things for that loss. Maybe Amazon in 2000 wasn't so icky but there was also no free same day shipping. Apple II could be repaired without "special tools" but those machines were huge, heavy, mostly empty space, and gap and glass alignment was way worse. I wish I could say something smart about Windows 95 but I've worked hard to erase it from my memory, so I can't. :) Electronics things, just in general, did a lot less in the past. With that comes good and bad. Privacy is a trade-off and right now the general public doesn't place a high value on privacy so they're happy to trade it away for anything. Honestly I understand it. I'm convinced I'm going to get bombarded with marketing nonsense regardless so I might as well get something for it.
- kevindamm 2y ago
  > I wish I could say something smart about Windows 95 but... Remember how its uptime was limited to 49.7 days because of a timer's numeric overflow (and in something like an audio driver, too, it shouldn't have been system critical). Good times. A lot of computing in the 90s and earlier was terribly unstable. And that was without considering how prevalent viruses were in the 90s, too.
- BrenBarn 2y ago
  > Maybe Amazon in 2000 wasn't so icky but there was also no free same day shipping. And that was absolutely okay and would still be okay. We don't need free same-day shipping. Free same-day shipping is basically a drug that people have gotten addicted to.
Havoc 2y ago
> The privacy losses are more than offset by the gains of communicating with everyone on the planet. Why can’t we have both?
johnnyanmac 2y ago
App stores are middlenen who dictate what users get to see and consume, while taking 30% from what's approved. I think thars eye predatory part. Apple is the much more obvious offender, even for stuff not traditionally stigmatized against. Microsoft struggled to release Xcloud becsuse Apple didn't want a game streaming service on IOS. Meanwhile, steaming music, videos, and anything that works on its purposefully botched internet was fine. >The privacy losses are more than offset by the gains of communicating with everyone on the planet. Definitely a contentious take these days, given recent events.
- threeseed 2y ago
  > Microsoft struggled to release Xcloud becsuse Apple didn't want a game streaming service on IOS This is allowed on iOS and Xcloud is still not available.
openrisk 2y ago
> I'm not required to use social media and extractive business models Ofcourse you are not required. You also free to retire as a hermite in a remote island. For anybody hoping to be a non-conspicuous part of society, refusing to condone abusive tech services extracts an ever growing toll.
- Gormo 2y ago
  You're equating avoiding mass-market social media with becoming a hermit on a remote island. But you're here, saying that on HN. I've seen people say similar things on Reddit, in IRC channels, on blogs, Gemlogs, Mastodon posts, and other similar venues, without realizing the irony of it.
  - mixmastamyk 2y ago
    "We should improve society somewhat..." https://knowyourmeme.com/editorials/guides/what-is-the-we-should-improve-society-somewhat-comic-the-popular-panel-explained https://knowyourmeme.com/editorials/guides/what-is-the-we-sh...
    - Gormo 2y ago
      The previous comment was complaining that we can't improve the situation, as there are no viable alternatives, in a discussion that is taking place on one of the alternatives. That's the irony.
  - openrisk 2y ago
    Bizarre stretch of logic to extract an irony. Meta platforms in particular (facebook and whatsapp) are in many countries an almost exclusive intermediary to any online communication. You are basically incapacitated if you do not use them.
    - Gormo 2y ago
      Well, no, all of those other forms of online communication exist globally, and can be used by anyone, anywhere.

by marbro 2y ago

9283409232 2y ago

> I'm not required to use social media and extractive business models. Most people do use them though. > The privacy losses are more than offset by the gains of communicating with everyone on the planet. I completely disagree. Most people aren't actually communicating. At least not in any form that matters. The drastic increase in loneliness and depression that correlates with the increase in connectivity should at least show that more social media doesn't mean more happy.

johnnyanmac 2y ago
Sadly relatable to a lot of real life. Modern people don't talk "to" each other some portion of the time. They talk past each other in this mimicry of discussion.

hn3er1q 2y ago

That's kinda what I was thinking too. There is a privacy loss for sure, but the average consumer also gained things for that loss. Maybe Amazon in 2000 wasn't so icky but there was also no free same day shipping. Apple II could be repaired without "special tools" but those machines were huge, heavy, mostly empty space, and gap and glass alignment was way worse. I wish I could say something smart about Windows 95 but I've worked hard to erase it from my memory, so I can't. :) Electronics things, just in general, did a lot less in the past. With that comes good and bad. Privacy is a trade-off and right now the general public doesn't place a high value on privacy so they're happy to trade it away for anything. Honestly I understand it. I'm convinced I'm going to get bombarded with marketing nonsense regardless so I might as well get something for it.

kevindamm 2y ago
> I wish I could say something smart about Windows 95 but... Remember how its uptime was limited to 49.7 days because of a timer's numeric overflow (and in something like an audio driver, too, it shouldn't have been system critical). Good times. A lot of computing in the 90s and earlier was terribly unstable. And that was without considering how prevalent viruses were in the 90s, too.
BrenBarn 2y ago
> Maybe Amazon in 2000 wasn't so icky but there was also no free same day shipping. And that was absolutely okay and would still be okay. We don't need free same-day shipping. Free same-day shipping is basically a drug that people have gotten addicted to.

Havoc 2y ago

> The privacy losses are more than offset by the gains of communicating with everyone on the planet. Why can’t we have both?

johnnyanmac 2y ago

App stores are middlenen who dictate what users get to see and consume, while taking 30% from what's approved. I think thars eye predatory part. Apple is the much more obvious offender, even for stuff not traditionally stigmatized against. Microsoft struggled to release Xcloud becsuse Apple didn't want a game streaming service on IOS. Meanwhile, steaming music, videos, and anything that works on its purposefully botched internet was fine. >The privacy losses are more than offset by the gains of communicating with everyone on the planet. Definitely a contentious take these days, given recent events.

threeseed 2y ago
> Microsoft struggled to release Xcloud becsuse Apple didn't want a game streaming service on IOS This is allowed on iOS and Xcloud is still not available.

openrisk 2y ago

> I'm not required to use social media and extractive business models Ofcourse you are not required. You also free to retire as a hermite in a remote island. For anybody hoping to be a non-conspicuous part of society, refusing to condone abusive tech services extracts an ever growing toll.

Gormo 2y ago
You're equating avoiding mass-market social media with becoming a hermit on a remote island. But you're here, saying that on HN. I've seen people say similar things on Reddit, in IRC channels, on blogs, Gemlogs, Mastodon posts, and other similar venues, without realizing the irony of it.
- mixmastamyk 2y ago
  "We should improve society somewhat..." https://knowyourmeme.com/editorials/guides/what-is-the-we-should-improve-society-somewhat-comic-the-popular-panel-explained https://knowyourmeme.com/editorials/guides/what-is-the-we-sh...
  - Gormo 2y ago
    The previous comment was complaining that we can't improve the situation, as there are no viable alternatives, in a discussion that is taking place on one of the alternatives. That's the irony.
- openrisk 2y ago
  Bizarre stretch of logic to extract an irony. Meta platforms in particular (facebook and whatsapp) are in many countries an almost exclusive intermediary to any online communication. You are basically incapacitated if you do not use them.
  - Gormo 2y ago
    Well, no, all of those other forms of online communication exist globally, and can be used by anyone, anywhere.