7 ms·
Ask HN: Songwriters, what software do you use?
e.g. Word Processor, LLM, Rhymezone, Masterwriter, etc.?
I'm particularly interested in any AI assisted software. Assisted being the keyword; I'm not interested in AI generated slop, but something that makes intelligent suggestions as you write.
- decasia 2y agoI always like writing the first verse on paper, then typing it up and maybe writing the other verses/the chorus while trying to figure out the music at the same time... I usually just write lyrics in a very simple text editor. I like Rhymezone too, and the MacOS dictionary's thesaurus, as they sometimes help me think of words I don't come up with otherwise. But I feel like with songs - the good stuff always comes when you let yourself listen to your unconscious, like all the really good material and images are buried in there somewhere and you just have to trick yourself into finding them.
- Humphrey 2y ago- Most time is spent in the iPhone's Notes & Voice Memo apps. - I try Rhymezone, but it rarely helps me find a word I hadn't already though of. - The Complete Rhyming Dictionary [1] as it also helps find great family rhymes - but is a very manual process. - ChatGPT voice chat for object writing - mostly just because I'm more of a vocal processor - I forbid it from writing anything, and instruct it clearly to just listen and give me a list of the metaphors, imagery, and descriptive words that I tell it. I've always struggled with motivation to do object writing, but I quite enjoy doing it audibly like this. - ChatGPT as a proof-reader. Eg "Review the following song for me. What would new listeners think the song is about and saying". You need to be careful though, because it will often tell you stupid stuff like "the melody is great" even though you haven't shared a melody. - ChatGPT as a sounding board when I'm battling over a very specific phrase or wording. More as a sounding board though, as I usually don't use it's suggestions. - Logic Pro - The latest version lets you add chords and have it auto play some basic AI session players - which is great for fleshing out the basic ideas, and having something I can play on repeat why I write lyrics. Once I'm happy with the song, I'll then start replacing the AI tracks with human created tracks. [1] https://www.amazon.com.au/Complete-Rhyming-Dictionary-Clement-Wood/dp/0440212057 https://www.amazon.com.au/Complete-Rhyming-Dictionary-Clemen...
- dwnw 2y agoHardware is better at this: notebook, pencil, baseball bat. "AI art" is plagiarism and not an art at all.
- latexr 2y ago> baseball bat Could you expand on this? How does a baseball bat help you in songwriting?
- dwnw 2y agoSure. With rock & roll, the pencil is sometimes not large enough to rage against the machine properly and a heftier implement is necessary.
- mattpope 2y agoI went to a Slipknot concert back in 2022. They had a "junk set", a bunch of trashcans and kegs that they hit with aluminum bats. Not completely the same, but it did have a dissonant sound!
- SOLAR_FIELDS 2y agoAh yes, I remember as a kid a common joke we would make when talking about easy jobs is that we wanted to be the guy from Slipknot whose job was simply to swing a baseball bat at a trash can. No need to rehearse for that!
- __d 2y agoI’m interested in the plagiarism perspective. I feel like LLMs are not too dissimilar to humans. We listen to a lifetime of music, read text, watch videos, etc. and when we come to create something all of that influences what we produce. Like if you’ve listened largely to western music, and you look for a note to complete a provided two-note sequence, your choice is informed by that listening history. A non-western trained person is likely to pick a different note. Similar analogies can be made for eg English phrases, or even topics for songs. There’s clearly a boundary between influenced by and copied. Is it the same for generative AI as it is for humans?
- quintes 2y agoGarageBand, voice memos I only use the drummer as close to ai as it gets.
- meezyman216 2y agoWrite my verses in google keep, record, produce, mix, and master in Studio One
- 0_____0 2y agonotes app and paper. ableton live for recording/running VSTs but for stuff that isn't MIDI based something like Reaper works really well.
- sbpayne 2y agoI have been building my own app for this recently. Its very early, but I have been shaping 3 songs with it already and am starting to get some friends to try it. I am self taught with songwriting/music so I think it might reflect my own idiosyncratic songwriting process more than anything else at the moment. Happy to open up a preview if anyone is interested though. Shoot me an email if interested (in profile)
- Humphrey 2y agoWhat does the app provide? I have long considered creating an app that combines Notes with Voice Memos with a way of tracking alternative ideas for each line or section.
- sbpayne 2y agoBasic features: Create projects Projects can contain notes and audio (uploaded or recorded in browser) Then theres an AI chat in the project where the docs/audio are available as context (multimodal models used) Its definitely very early; AI and UX need a lot of work. But definitely has helped me get over some “humps” with writing songs. For extra context: I write songs with acoustic guitar and vocals, but I would say they are pretty simple overall.
- dougb5 2y agoAllow me to plug a dictionary/thesaurus site I've been running for decades called OneLook (https://onelook.com https://onelook.com). Although it's not specifically aimed at songwriters, it does attract many of them as users. Over the past thirty years, I've added all sorts of brainstorming features for creative writers—like the ability to search for words by description, to match words with a given meter, and more recently to discover which colors a word might evoke or vice versa. (I’m also the creator of RhymeZone so I'll plug that too! I no longer operate it, but I can pass along any feature requests you might have to its new owners.)
- kfrzcode 2y agoHuge, huge fan of the entire Datamuse stack. You have done incredible work toward building a mega-useful cognitive exploration tool, ontology and super-power for word nerds. Software and data which I would love to pay for. Also OP might like https://www.onelook.com/spruce/ https://www.onelook.com/spruce/
- dougb5 2y agoWow, thank you, that means a lot to me! And I'm stoked you found Spruce -- we added that 5 years ago, pre-LLM era, but it never got much traction.
- fluxic 2y agoHey Doug, huge fan of yours. Thank you for everything.
- ArlenBales 2y agoWow, OneLook and the rest of your Datamuse collection will help me a lot. Thanks!
- mattpope 2y agonvim. No distractions. AI classifies as a distraction from expression (to me).
- shw1n 2y agoI was just asking a producer friend today about this — does anyone know of any tools that let you “clip” parts of songs with notes? When I’m listening to music I’ll occasionally hear some element I really like and note it down via text for later Eg “synth at 1:35, really cool — be great for a cyberpunk track” I’d love to be able to hear these clips with one click (almost like Splice) Considering building for myself if something doesn’t already exist
- dwnw 2y agoI've seen this on SoundCloud, but that was a while ago.
- throwaway81523 2y agoUm, software? Worst of all, AI? No, please no. I confess to have used an online rhyming dictionary now and then, but prefer to avoid even that.
- dietrichepp 2y agoCurrently working on an album. Software I use for songwriting: mostly Logic, also Dorico. Voice memos. Rhymezone sometimes. Rhymezone seems less and less helpful as I go on. I hardly use text editors for lyrics, paper seems to work a lot better. I end up with a lot of scribbles all over the paper. AI suggestions for songwriting seems a bit like turning on cheat codes in a game. Cheat codes will help me beat a game faster. The cost? The game is less fun, and the whole reason I play games is to have fun. Songwriting is an activity for me, like gardening or running or something like that. Or putting together a jigsaw puzzle. If you had an AI assistant that could help you put together a jigsaw puzzle, would you use it? There are AI tools around and some work decently well: - Logic has session players. I don’t think they’re AI, but they are decent at putting up the skeleton of a song. - AI-powered stem-splitting tools help you pick apart songs you like and figure out how they work. - AI-powered song mastering tools produce dubious output. I have gone through multiple iterations with AI-powered tools and ended up happier just mastering the song myself. LLMs seem like the great failure here.
- kfrzcode 2y agoIf you're not already aware of it, check out onelook.com
- dietrichepp 2y agoI don’t see how this would help me, sorry. It looks kind of like a more advanced thesaurus or something. I understand why some people might like this sort of thing but it’s kind of the opposite of what I want. I’m not using RhymeZone less and less because RhymeZone could be better at what it does. I’m using RhymeZone less and less because the problem that RhymeZone solves is becoming less and less relevant to my process.
- Ancapistani 2y ago> If you had an AI assistant that could help you put together a jigsaw puzzle, would you use it? It depends. Is the puzzle a modern commercial jigsaw puzzle? Of course I wouldn't use it. Is the puzzle a unique ancient Sumerian tablet that was just accidentally shattered and in pieces on the ground, but I need the information on it immediately? Absolutely.
- bpev 2y agoWrote a giant blog series with the entire process of my last album: https://bpev.me/notes/vx1 https://bpev.me/notes/vx1 I think each song develops differently, so process varies depending. But tldr on software is: Step 1. Whatever is easiest to write immediately on inspiration (which happens anytime anywhere): Voice Memos, Phone Notes app, Text Editor. I have a super long voice memo history, so my songs usually develop from 2-3+ voice memo ideas that may have been recorded years apart. I'll scroll through old ideas while songwriting to see if other cool ideas fit. Step 2. Formalize using a combination of apps that depend on what I need to be specific about. Vibes? My DAW (Ableton or Reaper). Score? Musescore. Lyrics? Text editor + maybe recording a loop in my DAW. Step 3. Usally by the end, I have a score .xml, lyrics .txt, and ableton live exports + stems.
- dottjt 2y agoThis is actually an area that I find a little frustrating. Generally to produce music you need to use a DAW. Ableton, Logic Pro etc. What sucks is you can't easily just assign a lyric to a note. Like it's just not a feature they provide. It's something you can do in MuseScore because it uses traditional notation, but it would be great to be able to do it in something like Ableton.
- dwnw 2y agoYes, lyrics are usually part of a traditional notation "score". Of course, Ableton is too hip to provide traditional notation with a score editor, but quite a few other popular DAWs do, including Logic: https://support.apple.com/guide/logicpro/add-lyrics-to-a-score-lgcp8535c865/mac https://support.apple.com/guide/logicpro/add-lyrics-to-a-sco...
- dietrichepp 2y agoLogic has support for adding lyrics. Create a MIDI region, select it, and press N to open the score editor. Make sure the inspector is open on the left, press I to open it if necessary. There is a block which says “part box” and inside it, LYRIC. This lets you put lyrics in the score. That said, it’s not one of the strengths of Logic to use it this way.
- agarv 2y agoStudio One has a lyrics track https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_XPEXE1HHQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_XPEXE1HHQ
- fluxic 2y agologic. for words: rhymezone, roget, oed, b-rhymes, fun python dictionary things :~)
- paulmakl 2y agoRight now I write lots of EDM. I plug in something with lots of unquantized delay on it and just make noise. I listen back to it and hear songs in the rhythms from the delay trails. That gets me started. From there I finish up in Live adding kick, bass and whatever else comes to mind. You could use AI generated music this way, generate some songs and sample snippets or find interesting rhythms.
- imaginationra 2y agoJust finishing an original full length musical- I wrote all the music and lyrics using my human brain and Reason software. The only AI tool I use is Audimee.com to convert my singing voice into 8-10 other singers for different roles + harmonies in the musical.
- jletienne 2y agoApple Notes, I used to use Microsoft Excel
- agentultra 2y agoI don’t use any software. Just notebook, pen, 4-track tape recorder, an SM-58, a cheap Beringer pre-amp, and some DT-770’s.
- davidw 2y ago"Three cords and the truth"
- agentultra 2y agoNevada was Springsteen’s best album. Sgt Pepper’s was probably the best Beatles album (although the contention for that honour is quite high). Sometimes less is more.
- scelerat 2y agosame. to me, it's the immediacy that matters; I want as little getting in the way of getting my idea in draft form quickly. A real paper notepad and just the voice record feature of my phone are my main go-tos. One of the biggest dangers of software solutions is that everything is so easy that it's super easy to just start playing with things that don't matter instead of actually working on the music itself. Sometimes keeping the tools simple helps keep the focus on the real work.
- norir 2y agoNot software, but I am a big fan of the boss 505 table top looper. It is a great tool for building up parts and I love not staring at a screen while making music. Several of my friends swear by loopy pro for similar purposes, but I like the hardware solution here better.
- obeats 2y agoFor lyrics, I currently use Google Keep and hugely resent myself for it. What I want is to be able to write lyrics as easily as plaintext, but with manually assignment of meter, rhythm etc, while also being able to "fork" lyrics at a point and be able to work on different threads, keep track of alternative lyrics on a phrase level too. Being able to sync that up with some basic music notation (e.g. keys and percussion) would get me 90% of the way to where I want to be when it comes to writing at the computer. I think I have a coherent design for such a software in my head but am unsure if it really is what I need or is just a whimsical distraction from not writing good enough lyrics yet. Would be interested to hear if anyone's seen anything like this (can't say I've exhaustively looked).
- jareklupinski 2y ago> What I want is to be able to write lyrics as easily as plaintext, ... while also being able to "fork" lyrics at a point and be able to work on different threads, keep track of alternative lyrics on a phrase level too. made me think of how sometimes i use ide "code folding" features to see just the first lines of a series of easily collapsable lists of text blocks
- setsewerd 2y agoLate response here that might not be useful to you, but I mostly use Google docs for lyrics (on both my phone and laptop) and tend to rely on bullets for alternative lines. This is fine for 1-2 alternate versions of a given line, but would get clunky beyond that. I imagine if I wanted to fork a song further than just a few alternate lines, I could insert a 2-column table and continue the song in each column. It's rudimentary, but if you're worried that making your own software for it is just a form of advanced procrastination, something like Docs might be more manageable than Keep.
- ansc 2y agoI use https://lazyjot.com https://lazyjot.com. It has a lot of weirder imperfect rhymes than other rhyme dictionaries, which makes it a lot more useful for me. Makes me a bit more creative. No AI generated slop yet.
- jzellis 2y agoGoogle Keep, mostly. I write down words and fragments of songs - lines, rhymes, choruses - as they occur to me. When inspiration hits, I turn these into a song lyric, and then I sit down with my guitar or my keyboard and I come up with a chord progression and a melody, which I memorize through practice and repetition. I learned this workflow from my mother, who is a singer-songwriter, and literally every songwriter in history, though most of them probably used notebooks instead of Keep, as I did until a few years ago. I've been using this workflow for does math 33 years now, since I was a teenager. I think I've probably used rhyming dictionaries two or three times in that time. I would no more use any form of AI to write lyrics than I would build a robot to exercise for me. It would completely and totally miss the point of songwriting for me, which isn't producing "content" - it's a self-expressive art form. If you find yourself wanting more than a pen and paper or a notes app for songwriting, I respectfully suggest - as someone who's been writing, performing and recording songs for the aforementioned 30+ years as well as growing up the child of a professional songwriter and also being myself a paid music critic and journalist for many years - you might not be understanding the assignment. The most important tool you have as a songwriter - or any writer - is your ears. Listen to music. Listen to songwriters who are very good at it - there's this cat named Bob Dylan who's got a bit of a reputation for that, or Leonard Cohen or Joni Mitchell or Nick Cave or Paul Simon or Jason Isbell. Listen to what they do and figure out what they're doing. And unless you're a born storyteller, you often need to have an interesting life to write interesting songs about. I suggest falling in love with lots of people and travelling and paying attention when you're doing these things, not just to how you feel but everything around you. Pay attention to people and write about them. An example lyric: I rang the New Year in / In a field out in the suburbs / Somewhere outside East Berlin / I watched the fireworks burn the night / And I wondered where you were / And if you were alright See, that lyric exists because I actually spent New Year's Eve in a field outside Berlin. Go do that. Or get good at convincing people you have. This isn't about software, but all the software on earth won't help you if you can't write a good song with a pen and paper. It's not enterprise software, it's not labor intensive, one person can do it sitting in a diner with a college ruled notebook and, indeed, many of the best songs have been written that way. Or you can let an AI write it for you and dink around with the settings and call yourself a songwriter, but regardless of what you or the world tell you, you won't be. You'll actually be doing less work than most celebrity record producers and what comes out will be soulless product. If that's what you want, great, I guess, but you certainly don't need anyone's help to make shite pseudoart. People are filling the world with it right now.
- KloneKilla 2y agoFor music, typically Bitwig or Renoise for sketching out the song's structure, export to audio files, then mix + master in Bitwig. For lyrics it's usually vocal chops with Splice + Renoise or using ChatGPT for a rough version that's tweaked by hand.
- elseleigh 2y agoI wrote my own; Lyricist, to integrate rhymes, synonyms and antonyms without having to switch applications or browser tabs. It's a small, not very fancy, web page you can run anywhere, even from your own hard drive. You have to sign up to a third party to use the rhymes, synonyms etc, but it's easy and free. https://www.else.co.nz/code/creating-lyricist https://www.else.co.nz/code/creating-lyricist
- tylernigrofr 2y agoI always test new LLMs to see how they expand on lyrics that I've started to see how well they expand on them - and what they generate is just lame and cringe. The only thing I've found that seems to have AI trained in a sort of artistic way is Suno's ReMi lyrics model - but it's purely for generative purposes with no real way of interacting with existing lyrics. It would be nice if Suno implemented a lyrics editor that uses their ReMi model. I'd really have a use for an AI assisted songwriting tool - like Cursor, but for artistic songwriting that doesn't totally suck.
- kypro 2y ago> I'm not interested in AI generated slop, but something that makes intelligent suggestions as you write. I used to find Hooktheory was good for this. It can suggest chords and explore popular chord progressions. You can also export melodies of popular songs which can be useful for creating your own that are structurally similar. I used to create something I'd like the vibe of there, then export it to MIDI and into Ableton to build on it.