5 ms·

How science is rewriting basketball wisdom

38 points by jamesbritt 14y ago

wilfra 14y ago
Basketball is not engineering. Style counts for a lot, including the size of contracts and endorsement deals. Convincing players to purposely shoot ugly free throws that will bounce around a lot, but go in slightly more often, is going to be very difficult.
- eropple 14y ago
  I think that Steve Nash, Jeremy Lin, and about three-quarters of the starting fours and fives in the league would disagree with your style claim pretty strenuously. Winning games counts for way more than style does. Not that Lin has done a ton of that yet, but he's the most herky-jerky player I can remember in a decent while and he's going up for an insane contract. Nash in particular is known for the most utilitarian shooting moves in recent memory. I don't recall him hurting for money when new contracts rolled around. And one Shaquille O'Neal was legendary for both terrible free throw shooting and looking like a moron when trying--I seem to recall he did okay, too...
  - majormajor 14y ago
    Shawn Marion has a wonderfully cringe-worthy jumper technique too.
- demallien 14y ago
  Johnny wilkinson is a good counter example, even if he plays rugby, not basketball. Style is nothing, effectiveness is everything in sport. In fact, effectiveness informs style - there are now a whole bunch of international rugby players that copy wilkinsons daggy way of taking a penalty.
- nessus42 14y ago
  Wasn't there an article posted here about this very same issue with penalty kicks in soccer? Well, I'm not sure that I read it here, but I did read it somewhere: Someone did a mathematical analysis and determined that goalies should stand in the center a lot more often than they do when defending against a penalty kick. The issue is that they have to make their decision which way they are going to move before they have enough information on which way is the right way. If they wait until they actually have enough information for the decision, then it is already too late. Their choices are to jump to the left, jump to the right, or stay put. Unless soccer penalty kickers are biased about which choice they make in kicking, you'd expect that the goalies would jump to the left 1/3 of the time, jump to the right 1/3 of the time, and stay put 1/3 of the time. Jumping to the left and to the right were significantly over-represented in the actual data. The conclusion was that for a goalie's reputation, it is much better to jump to one side or the other and look like he's trying, even if he fails, than to stand in the middle and look like he's being lazy. For an important game, if he does that, and the kicker makes the point, and his team loses, it can mean the end of the goalie's career, just based on people's perception. Or at least that's what the article claimed. Edit: Ah, it was on the Freakonomics podcast. The episode in question is here: http://www.freakonomics.com/2010/06/10/freakonomics-radio-world-cup-edition/?ref=soccer http://www.freakonomics.com/2010/06/10/freakonomics-radio-wo... I had some of the details not quite right above, but the idea is the same. The strategy being putatively underemployed is the kicker kicking it straight down the middle.
  - philwelch 14y ago
    If you watched the recent European Championships, the technique of shooting down the middle--the so-called "Paneka" penalty--seems to be making a resurgence. The problem is that if you overdo it, the goalkeeper will compensate, and a Paneka is a lot easier to save than a well-driven shot to the corner. You might notice that fairly often, even if the goalkeeper chooses the right way to dive, he sometimes doesn't make the save.
JoelSutherland 14y ago
This is not new. In gym class 20 years ago the teacher put in an old "how to shoot with Rick Barry" VHS. Proper shooting included a moderate number of revolutions and focus on the back iron. Every basketball camp in the country explains how the bank shot rules described work. Also knowing appropriate arc, rotations and place to aim are not bottlenecks on free throw shooting percentages. The issue is consistency which is bound by mental factors and shooting form.
- philwelch 14y ago
  I was just about to mention Rick Barry. He's outspoken for his insistence that his signature underhand free throw technique is more accurate. It very well may be, but NBA players are too macho to try a "granny shot", so no one has really tried it.
  - intellegacy 14y ago
    I don't believe that's necessarily the case. Free-throw shooting is a chance to develop your shot rhythm because the mechanics and form are similar to your shot during the game. There's a benefit to shooting free throws the same way you shoot jumpers. If you use the underhand technique you relinquish that advantage. not to mention you must learn a new way of shooting entirely.
    - philwelch 14y ago
      Except: 1. It's already different because you can't jump with a free throw. 2. A lot of players seem to have no trouble handling both an ordinary jump shot and also a hook shot. 3. Even players who never take normal jump shots and have atrocious free throw ability never switch to the underhand style.
      - randall 14y ago
        FWIW, you actually can jump for a free throw but it's sort of tradition that people don't. The people who suck at freethrows normally have comically large hands which makes shooting from any sort of distance difficult. (Shaq, Dwight Howard, et. al.)
cglee 14y ago
Are there no basketball players here? I was always taught to aim for the back of the rim and to make sure my arc reached the top of the backboard and to have backspin, and a million other tips (set your feet, square your shoulders, 90 degree elbow bend, stick out your ass, bend your knees, etc) that's far more useful than this article.
- ebiester 14y ago
  The traditional wisdom was 45 degrees, not 54 degrees, and even lower arcs are quite common. Also, the V is a slight departure from common wisdom. In basketball camp, I was also taught 1.5 rotations rather than 3. It's an optimization of previous information, not a revolution.
lawrence 14y ago
I'm not sure the author is a basketball player: "Aiming for the center of the basket increases the chance of hitting the front of the rim and having the shot drop straight down." Has anyone ever seen a free throw drop straight down after hitting the front rim? Seems like the only way to make that happen would be to throw the basketball baseball style on a line, and nail the bottom of the front rim. Even Shaq had better mechanics than that.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
flexie 14y ago
Many team sports could benefit from a scientific approach to management (Moneyball style). But I think the real game changer at the individual, technical skills level is systematic video tutorials. Up until a few years ago kids could only learn tricks from other kids on the block or in the local club. Nowadays, there are free apps with detailed video tutorials on receiving the ball, moves, fakes, dribbles, shots, passes, tricks etc. Kids can watch the videos real time and in slow motion or with the different steps broken down and explained.
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
RockofStrength 14y ago
The only new tip I received from the article (I'd pretty much heard the rest before) is to make the peak of your free throw's arc parallel to the top of the backboard. What I'm really interested in is learning how to dunk...all I need is about 4 more inches to do it comfortably.

38 points by jamesbritt 14y ago

Basketball is not engineering. Style counts for a lot, including the size of contracts and endorsement deals. Convincing players to purposely shoot ugly free throws that will bounce around a lot, but go in slightly more often, is going to be very difficult.

eropple 14y ago
I think that Steve Nash, Jeremy Lin, and about three-quarters of the starting fours and fives in the league would disagree with your style claim pretty strenuously. Winning games counts for way more than style does. Not that Lin has done a ton of that yet, but he's the most herky-jerky player I can remember in a decent while and he's going up for an insane contract. Nash in particular is known for the most utilitarian shooting moves in recent memory. I don't recall him hurting for money when new contracts rolled around. And one Shaquille O'Neal was legendary for both terrible free throw shooting and looking like a moron when trying--I seem to recall he did okay, too...
- majormajor 14y ago
  Shawn Marion has a wonderfully cringe-worthy jumper technique too.
demallien 14y ago
Johnny wilkinson is a good counter example, even if he plays rugby, not basketball. Style is nothing, effectiveness is everything in sport. In fact, effectiveness informs style - there are now a whole bunch of international rugby players that copy wilkinsons daggy way of taking a penalty.
nessus42 14y ago
Wasn't there an article posted here about this very same issue with penalty kicks in soccer? Well, I'm not sure that I read it here, but I did read it somewhere: Someone did a mathematical analysis and determined that goalies should stand in the center a lot more often than they do when defending against a penalty kick. The issue is that they have to make their decision which way they are going to move before they have enough information on which way is the right way. If they wait until they actually have enough information for the decision, then it is already too late. Their choices are to jump to the left, jump to the right, or stay put. Unless soccer penalty kickers are biased about which choice they make in kicking, you'd expect that the goalies would jump to the left 1/3 of the time, jump to the right 1/3 of the time, and stay put 1/3 of the time. Jumping to the left and to the right were significantly over-represented in the actual data. The conclusion was that for a goalie's reputation, it is much better to jump to one side or the other and look like he's trying, even if he fails, than to stand in the middle and look like he's being lazy. For an important game, if he does that, and the kicker makes the point, and his team loses, it can mean the end of the goalie's career, just based on people's perception. Or at least that's what the article claimed. Edit: Ah, it was on the Freakonomics podcast. The episode in question is here: http://www.freakonomics.com/2010/06/10/freakonomics-radio-world-cup-edition/?ref=soccer http://www.freakonomics.com/2010/06/10/freakonomics-radio-wo... I had some of the details not quite right above, but the idea is the same. The strategy being putatively underemployed is the kicker kicking it straight down the middle.
- philwelch 14y ago
  If you watched the recent European Championships, the technique of shooting down the middle--the so-called "Paneka" penalty--seems to be making a resurgence. The problem is that if you overdo it, the goalkeeper will compensate, and a Paneka is a lot easier to save than a well-driven shot to the corner. You might notice that fairly often, even if the goalkeeper chooses the right way to dive, he sometimes doesn't make the save.

JoelSutherland 14y ago

This is not new. In gym class 20 years ago the teacher put in an old "how to shoot with Rick Barry" VHS. Proper shooting included a moderate number of revolutions and focus on the back iron. Every basketball camp in the country explains how the bank shot rules described work. Also knowing appropriate arc, rotations and place to aim are not bottlenecks on free throw shooting percentages. The issue is consistency which is bound by mental factors and shooting form.

philwelch 14y ago
I was just about to mention Rick Barry. He's outspoken for his insistence that his signature underhand free throw technique is more accurate. It very well may be, but NBA players are too macho to try a "granny shot", so no one has really tried it.
- intellegacy 14y ago
  I don't believe that's necessarily the case. Free-throw shooting is a chance to develop your shot rhythm because the mechanics and form are similar to your shot during the game. There's a benefit to shooting free throws the same way you shoot jumpers. If you use the underhand technique you relinquish that advantage. not to mention you must learn a new way of shooting entirely.
  - philwelch 14y ago
    Except: 1. It's already different because you can't jump with a free throw. 2. A lot of players seem to have no trouble handling both an ordinary jump shot and also a hook shot. 3. Even players who never take normal jump shots and have atrocious free throw ability never switch to the underhand style.
    - randall 14y ago
      FWIW, you actually can jump for a free throw but it's sort of tradition that people don't. The people who suck at freethrows normally have comically large hands which makes shooting from any sort of distance difficult. (Shaq, Dwight Howard, et. al.)

cglee 14y ago

Are there no basketball players here? I was always taught to aim for the back of the rim and to make sure my arc reached the top of the backboard and to have backspin, and a million other tips (set your feet, square your shoulders, 90 degree elbow bend, stick out your ass, bend your knees, etc) that's far more useful than this article.

ebiester 14y ago
The traditional wisdom was 45 degrees, not 54 degrees, and even lower arcs are quite common. Also, the V is a slight departure from common wisdom. In basketball camp, I was also taught 1.5 rotations rather than 3. It's an optimization of previous information, not a revolution.

lawrence 14y ago

I'm not sure the author is a basketball player: "Aiming for the center of the basket increases the chance of hitting the front of the rim and having the shot drop straight down." Has anyone ever seen a free throw drop straight down after hitting the front rim? Seems like the only way to make that happen would be to throw the basketball baseball style on a line, and nail the bottom of the front rim. Even Shaq had better mechanics than that.

deleted 14y ago
[deleted]

flexie 14y ago

Many team sports could benefit from a scientific approach to management (Moneyball style). But I think the real game changer at the individual, technical skills level is systematic video tutorials. Up until a few years ago kids could only learn tricks from other kids on the block or in the local club. Nowadays, there are free apps with detailed video tutorials on receiving the ball, moves, fakes, dribbles, shots, passes, tricks etc. Kids can watch the videos real time and in slow motion or with the different steps broken down and explained.

deleted 14y ago

[deleted]

RockofStrength 14y ago

The only new tip I received from the article (I'd pretty much heard the rest before) is to make the peak of your free throw's arc parallel to the top of the backboard. What I'm really interested in is learning how to dunk...all I need is about 4 more inches to do it comfortably.