6 ms·

For those unaware of ACLU's change over the last 10 or so years, here is an example: In September 2021, the ACLU wrote a New York Times op-ed defending vaccine

by bko 2y ago

For those unaware of ACLU's change over the last 10 or so years, here is an example: In September 2021, the ACLU wrote a New York Times op-ed defending vaccine requirements, arguing they actually advance civil liberties by protecting the most vulnerable and allowing more people to safely participate in public life. David Cole and Daniel Mach, the authors, wrote that individual liberty isn't absolute when it puts others at risk. Surely, one can be pro vaccine mandates. But I would not expect a civil liberties organization to hold this position. [0] https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/02/opinion/covid-vaccine-mandates-civil-liberties.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/02/opinion/covid-vaccine-man...

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
stuaxo 2y ago
Well, whose rights are we talking about. There is "freedom to" and "Freedom from" lots of people not getting vaccinated affects people's freedom from getting infected.
- _3u10 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - echoangle 2y ago
    This neglects that some people can't be vaccinated or they would still be vulnerable even after an effective vaccination. You're not just vaccinated to protect yourself, it also reduces risk for the people around you.
    - account42 2y ago
      Those people can choose to self-quarantine.
    - _3u10 2y ago
      Not always, there's always a risk to the vaccine which is why it shouldn't be mandated.
- starluz 2y ago
  [dead]
idiotsecant 2y ago
You wouldn't expect a civil liberties organization to have an opinion on containing a dangerous pandemic? In addition to working at the ACLU the people doing their work are also humans.
- pclmulqdq 2y ago
  When "containing a dangerous pandemic" means a restriction on civil liberties, I would expect the ACLU to comment on that matter. I am personally happy with vaccine requirements, but IMO the ACLU should have been defending the people who weren't.
  - vharuck 2y ago
    Advocacy organizations shouldn't aspire to extremes. The ACLU should offer reasonable and practical help and commentary on civil liberties. Otherwise, you get the modern NRA that fights every law about firearms.
  - addicted 2y ago
    Should the ACLU defend the rights of someone to blow up nuclear bombs in their backyard? That’s a clear curtailment of their civil liberties. And assuming they’re in a rural area may not harm anyone else either. This is an obviously extreme example but the point still stands. Any civil liberties organization cannot focus absolutely narrowly on that question in every situation but has to apply a broader approach.
    - remarkEon 2y ago
      Surely you see the difference between someone having Strategic weapons in their garage, and the government forcing someone to take a medicine that they don't want to take, right? >but the point still stands On what, exactly?
      - pixl97 2y ago
        You, actually, do not have the right to spread viruses around. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Mallon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Mallon All individual rights are balanced with the rights of other individuals/society. You can be given the choice to vaccinate or be forcefully quarantined. This has occurred many times in the US and the right of the state to do this has been upheld. While corona was weak we will eventually seem some dangerous bullshit spread and the anti-vax dipshits are going figure out exactly what their rights entail as they are being drug from their house at gunpoint with the express will of the majority of the population.
tzs 2y ago
Pretty much every measure taken against COVID had been taken many times before during the numerous epidemics of cholera, typhus, yellow fever, bubonic plague, smallpox, and influenza that plagued (no pun intended!) the US since its founding. Requiring inoculation/vaccination, shut downs, masks, and quarantines was generally considered a legitimate use of state power to prevent the spread of deadly diseases and not an infringement of civil liberties. Actually this goes back to even before the US was founded. George Washington imposed mandatory smallpox inoculation on his army during the revolution. This probably contributed significantly to his victory because both the British army and native tribes that had sided with the British were heavily weakened by smallpox but Washington's was not due to that inoculation requirement.
- School-Cotton 2y ago
  Please share any pre-Covid example of the government shutting down all public gatherings including weddings and funerals and closing the vast majority of businesses for a substantial period of time. There may have been isolated examples in the past, but the degree was not the same.

by bko 2y ago

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

stuaxo 2y ago

Well, whose rights are we talking about. There is "freedom to" and "Freedom from" lots of people not getting vaccinated affects people's freedom from getting infected.

_3u10 2y ago
[flagged]
- echoangle 2y ago
  This neglects that some people can't be vaccinated or they would still be vulnerable even after an effective vaccination. You're not just vaccinated to protect yourself, it also reduces risk for the people around you.
  - account42 2y ago
    Those people can choose to self-quarantine.
  - _3u10 2y ago
    Not always, there's always a risk to the vaccine which is why it shouldn't be mandated.
starluz 2y ago
[dead]

idiotsecant 2y ago

You wouldn't expect a civil liberties organization to have an opinion on containing a dangerous pandemic? In addition to working at the ACLU the people doing their work are also humans.

pclmulqdq 2y ago
When "containing a dangerous pandemic" means a restriction on civil liberties, I would expect the ACLU to comment on that matter. I am personally happy with vaccine requirements, but IMO the ACLU should have been defending the people who weren't.
- vharuck 2y ago
  Advocacy organizations shouldn't aspire to extremes. The ACLU should offer reasonable and practical help and commentary on civil liberties. Otherwise, you get the modern NRA that fights every law about firearms.
- addicted 2y ago
  Should the ACLU defend the rights of someone to blow up nuclear bombs in their backyard? That’s a clear curtailment of their civil liberties. And assuming they’re in a rural area may not harm anyone else either. This is an obviously extreme example but the point still stands. Any civil liberties organization cannot focus absolutely narrowly on that question in every situation but has to apply a broader approach.
  - remarkEon 2y ago
    Surely you see the difference between someone having Strategic weapons in their garage, and the government forcing someone to take a medicine that they don't want to take, right? >but the point still stands On what, exactly?
    - pixl97 2y ago
      You, actually, do not have the right to spread viruses around. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Mallon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Mallon All individual rights are balanced with the rights of other individuals/society. You can be given the choice to vaccinate or be forcefully quarantined. This has occurred many times in the US and the right of the state to do this has been upheld. While corona was weak we will eventually seem some dangerous bullshit spread and the anti-vax dipshits are going figure out exactly what their rights entail as they are being drug from their house at gunpoint with the express will of the majority of the population.

tzs 2y ago

Pretty much every measure taken against COVID had been taken many times before during the numerous epidemics of cholera, typhus, yellow fever, bubonic plague, smallpox, and influenza that plagued (no pun intended!) the US since its founding. Requiring inoculation/vaccination, shut downs, masks, and quarantines was generally considered a legitimate use of state power to prevent the spread of deadly diseases and not an infringement of civil liberties. Actually this goes back to even before the US was founded. George Washington imposed mandatory smallpox inoculation on his army during the revolution. This probably contributed significantly to his victory because both the British army and native tribes that had sided with the British were heavily weakened by smallpox but Washington's was not due to that inoculation requirement.

School-Cotton 2y ago
Please share any pre-Covid example of the government shutting down all public gatherings including weddings and funerals and closing the vast majority of businesses for a substantial period of time. There may have been isolated examples in the past, but the degree was not the same.