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> I think anyone who says democracy is good and the will of the people should be respected is implicitly saying that is not true. Implicitly saying voters are
by Swizec 2y ago
> I think anyone who says democracy is good and the will of the people should be respected is implicitly saying that is not true. Implicitly saying voters are individual agents and not a mob.
Both are true. We are individual agents and a mob.
Democracy, as we all know, is the worst political system except for all the others. At scale people on average behave about average and make decisions perfectly aligned with their systemic incentives and available information.
You (and me) are not immune to propaganda.
Strong recommend watching/readingupon Manufacturing Consent and Chomsky’s life work in general.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- emptysongglass 2y agoI have a hard time taking Chomsky seriously after he felt his need to make his uninformed opinions on Russia's aggression and AI public. Was Chomsky ever an expert? Maybe, I wouldn't know because I haven't read what he built his legacy upon. But that he wrote so poorly on two topics he has little experience with does him no favors.
- Izkata 2y ago> Was Chomsky ever an expert? Maybe, I wouldn't know because I haven't read what he built his legacy upon. My entire life anything I hear from him has been misinformed and anything I hear about him is "Chomsky disproven". I have to imagine whatever he was known for happened before I was born - which I've never been exposed to. Granted I've never sought it out either. To me he feels like an academic Kardashian: Famous for being famous, and it's not really clear how it started.
- BriggyDwiggs42 2y agoI think he just went a little loopy with old age
- corimaith 2y ago>Was Chomsky ever an expert? Chomsky is a Linguistics Professor, he has no formal training in media or political theory. So yes, he is not an expert, and funnily enough he's the kind of leftist who straight up admits he is biased and selectively picks facts to support this arguments.
- ossobuco 2y ago> Democracy, as we all know, is the worst political system except for all the others. Honestly it would be about time we stop repeating this Churchill's quote as if it's one of the ten commandments. The man wasn't certainly a god and humans are often mistaken. The actual meaning of democracy is the "power of the people". Nowhere that implies a western-like electoral system. I'd argue in your average western democracy the people have very little power, with lots of symbolic processes to reinforce the illusion.
- Swizec 2y ago> The actual meaning of democracy is the "power of the people". Nowhere that implies a western-like electoral system. Correct. “we” used to do it simply by killing the leaders that were disliked. Elections are a bit friendlier than that :) You might enjoy this Zizek video on the border between the west and the balkans: https://youtu.be/bwDrHqNZ9lo https://youtu.be/bwDrHqNZ9lo . I think he captures the sentiment well. > I'd argue in your average western democracy the people have very little power, with lots of symbolic processes to reinforce the illusion. This was Chomsky’s whole point in Manufacturing Consent.
- ossobuco 2y agoI think then we can agree that if the people hold very little power, what we have today in the west is definitely not democracy. A study[0] came to the conclusion that the US is in fact closer to an oligarchy, and I'd extend that to most other so-called democratic countries. The interests of a few always trump the interests of the many. In this context, that Churchill's quote seems out of place and mostly serves the purpose of shutting down the discussion. And thanks, I very much enjoy that Zizek video. - [0]: https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-echochambers-27074746 https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-echochambers-27074746
- mvc 2y ago> what we have today in the west is definitely not democracy On the metric of "people power", do you think people in the east have it any better?