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Blanket censorship of this kind is not the hallmark of a healthy democracy. This ban is the definition of a slippery slope - this ban may be in your interests,

by Cyph0n 2y ago

Blanket censorship of this kind is not the hallmark of a healthy democracy. This ban is the definition of a slippery slope - this ban may be in your interests, but eventually one will not. What then?

talldayo 2y ago
This isn't blanket censorship, period. Every single user that currently voices their stance, values or opinions can continue to do the exact same thing on any other platform they choose. Just not TikTok, because they are a business owned by an adversarial government that deliberately uses their soapbox to manipulate democratic audiences: https://kyivinsider.com/russia-and-china-just-rigged-romanian-elections-using-10-million-fake-tiktok-accounts/ https://kyivinsider.com/russia-and-china-just-rigged-romania... Also don't forget - TikTok has remediation options where they continue to operate in America as an American business instead. They are the ones that refused that and chose censorship. America just forced the choice between eating the cake and having it. Edit: Correct, it is not. The part that is censorship on China's behalf is the enforcement of the Great Firewall and enaction of laws prohibiting citizens from owning or consuming foreign news or entertainment. China's ban on foreign apps could just as well be explained by a desire for better domestic software markets - the same cannot be said for the Firewall. Edit 2: Yes, secession would settle this. China has proven that they cannot be trusted to disseminate information through a state-owned apparatus. If the owner continues to be a government entity, then continuing to let them do "business" is like letting the Trojans wheel in their horse so the citizens can marvel at it.
- Cyph0n 2y ago
  By the same token, the Chinese ban on US apps is not censorship, correct? So if you accept to cede control we will leave you alone. Blackmail, in other words, exactly like China does it.
  - baq 2y ago
    Feel free to record a 30s video on the topic of Tiananmen Square and post it on X, Facebook and Chinese TikTok. Report back with results in 24h. In the conclusions section, point out the difference between censorship and moderation.
    - Cyph0n 2y ago
      How about you record a 30s clip of atrocities committed by the IDF in Gaza and watch how quickly it will be “moderated” into oblivion.
      - baq 2y ago
        see also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism
        Cyph0n 2y ago
        Not at all. I know that Chinese censorship exists. You - or others, lost track since multiple people are involved here - are the one who’s trying to argue that US censorship does not exist, even in light of this TikTok ban. Also, you probably don’t realize this, but censorship and moderation are many times two sides of the same coin - depending on the incentives and factors at play.
        baq 2y ago
        Censorship is very strictly defined as government’s doing. If this isn’t your definition, we aren’t even talking about the same things. I gave you a very concrete example with potentially serious consequences if you’re a Chinese national posting in China vs somebody getting deprioritized on one platform in yours.
        deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
      - themacguffinman 2y ago

by Cyph0n 2y ago

Blanket censorship of this kind is not the hallmark of a healthy democracy. This ban is the definition of a slippery slope - this ban may be in your interests, but eventually one will not. What then?

talldayo 2y ago

This isn't blanket censorship, period. Every single user that currently voices their stance, values or opinions can continue to do the exact same thing on any other platform they choose. Just not TikTok, because they are a business owned by an adversarial government that deliberately uses their soapbox to manipulate democratic audiences: https://kyivinsider.com/russia-and-china-just-rigged-romanian-elections-using-10-million-fake-tiktok-accounts/ https://kyivinsider.com/russia-and-china-just-rigged-romania... Also don't forget - TikTok has remediation options where they continue to operate in America as an American business instead. They are the ones that refused that and chose censorship. America just forced the choice between eating the cake and having it. Edit: Correct, it is not. The part that is censorship on China's behalf is the enforcement of the Great Firewall and enaction of laws prohibiting citizens from owning or consuming foreign news or entertainment. China's ban on foreign apps could just as well be explained by a desire for better domestic software markets - the same cannot be said for the Firewall. Edit 2: Yes, secession would settle this. China has proven that they cannot be trusted to disseminate information through a state-owned apparatus. If the owner continues to be a government entity, then continuing to let them do "business" is like letting the Trojans wheel in their horse so the citizens can marvel at it.

Cyph0n 2y ago
By the same token, the Chinese ban on US apps is not censorship, correct? So if you accept to cede control we will leave you alone. Blackmail, in other words, exactly like China does it.
- baq 2y ago
  Feel free to record a 30s video on the topic of Tiananmen Square and post it on X, Facebook and Chinese TikTok. Report back with results in 24h. In the conclusions section, point out the difference between censorship and moderation.
  - Cyph0n 2y ago
    How about you record a 30s clip of atrocities committed by the IDF in Gaza and watch how quickly it will be “moderated” into oblivion.
    - baq 2y ago
      see also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism
      - Cyph0n 2y ago
        Not at all. I know that Chinese censorship exists. You - or others, lost track since multiple people are involved here - are the one who’s trying to argue that US censorship does not exist, even in light of this TikTok ban. Also, you probably don’t realize this, but censorship and moderation are many times two sides of the same coin - depending on the incentives and factors at play.
        baq 2y ago
        Censorship is very strictly defined as government’s doing. If this isn’t your definition, we aren’t even talking about the same things. I gave you a very concrete example with potentially serious consequences if you’re a Chinese national posting in China vs somebody getting deprioritized on one platform in yours.
        deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
    - themacguffinman 2y ago