3 ms·

What do they, or any elite gain/lose by gaining/losing the appreciation of ordinary people. Do you care what a cattle or a sheep thinks? Some may, but the majo

What do they, or any elite gain/lose by gaining/losing the appreciation of ordinary people. Do you care what a cattle or a sheep thinks? Some may, but the majority don't give it a shit.

groggo 2y ago
They do still need our votes. But they forgot that, so they lost. I voted for democrats but they got what they deserved.
- judahmeek 2y ago
  What exactly do you think Democrats should have done that they didn't do?
  - steveBK123 2y ago
    I vote democrat, but then I'm a rich, educated, knowledge worker coastal urban elite so I'm supposed to right? I think the hard answer is - the Dems need to actually do things that dissatisfy people like me if they want to actually win the masses - working class, blue collar, etc voter back. Currently they are focussed on everything other than class. Identity politics. Race, gender, sexuality, immigration status, etc. None of this is particularly threatening to people like me and is a moral good, but it should be secondary to actually helping the poor regardless of how they identify. Left wing parties elsewhere push for more redistributive policies than the Dems ever dream of here. Instead they do hand-outs to constituencies that aren't in dire need, and already vote Dem anyway. Student loan forgiveness, EV tax credits, etc. Meanwhile in UK & EU, even the vaguely upper end of middle class pay marginal tax rates that would make $1M/year US earners cry. This is where the revenue comes for the depth & breadth of their social programs. Should the US go that far? Absolutely not. It would stifle innovation, growth, and what makes the US far more successful than our rich peers. But Dems need to break free of the thinking that if we just tax a few billionaires, all our problems will be solved.
    - dralley 2y ago
      Left wing parties elsewhere are losing too, mostly because of immigration. Meanwhile the welfare states are collapsing in the UK, Canada, France and Germany because the birthrates and lack of economic growth can't sustain it.
      - steveBK123 2y ago
        I think globally a lot of rich world left wing parties made similar rhetorical mistakes. Essentially leaning into identity stuff without acknowledging working class people’s challenges. Also to be fair they’ve been in power globally for some time and so are seen as the status quo party, and largely ran as such. People are feeling economically squeezed and therefore voting incumbents out.
        BLKNSLVR 2y ago
        So it sounds as if the left are attempting to cater to issues further up Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs than the majority of the voting populace think are important. That's interesting, because it feels like "the right" (in my experience and whatever left and right mean these days) wouldn't recognise or consider catering to anything above the two basic levels (and to be honest, the 'brutal truth' part of my own personality tells me that anything above those two basic levels is 'cream').
        steveBK123 2y ago
        Yes this is a good summation of the problem. People who worry about the price of groceries or basic car repairs to keep their older car on the road don’t want to hear how privileged they are due to their race (they might not be a minority but they aren’t rich) / how they are destroying the planet (they aren’t flying 10x year) / that kids who took out loans for expensive private college deserve free money (they didn’t even go to college or went to state school) / how democracy is at stake / etc.
        judahmeek 2y ago
  - groggo 2y ago
    not banned tiktok

What do they, or any elite gain/lose by gaining/losing the appreciation of ordinary people. Do you care what a cattle or a sheep thinks? Some may, but the majority don't give it a shit.

groggo 2y ago

They do still need our votes. But they forgot that, so they lost. I voted for democrats but they got what they deserved.

judahmeek 2y ago
What exactly do you think Democrats should have done that they didn't do?
- steveBK123 2y ago
  I vote democrat, but then I'm a rich, educated, knowledge worker coastal urban elite so I'm supposed to right? I think the hard answer is - the Dems need to actually do things that dissatisfy people like me if they want to actually win the masses - working class, blue collar, etc voter back. Currently they are focussed on everything other than class. Identity politics. Race, gender, sexuality, immigration status, etc. None of this is particularly threatening to people like me and is a moral good, but it should be secondary to actually helping the poor regardless of how they identify. Left wing parties elsewhere push for more redistributive policies than the Dems ever dream of here. Instead they do hand-outs to constituencies that aren't in dire need, and already vote Dem anyway. Student loan forgiveness, EV tax credits, etc. Meanwhile in UK & EU, even the vaguely upper end of middle class pay marginal tax rates that would make $1M/year US earners cry. This is where the revenue comes for the depth & breadth of their social programs. Should the US go that far? Absolutely not. It would stifle innovation, growth, and what makes the US far more successful than our rich peers. But Dems need to break free of the thinking that if we just tax a few billionaires, all our problems will be solved.
  - dralley 2y ago
    Left wing parties elsewhere are losing too, mostly because of immigration. Meanwhile the welfare states are collapsing in the UK, Canada, France and Germany because the birthrates and lack of economic growth can't sustain it.
    - steveBK123 2y ago
      I think globally a lot of rich world left wing parties made similar rhetorical mistakes. Essentially leaning into identity stuff without acknowledging working class people’s challenges. Also to be fair they’ve been in power globally for some time and so are seen as the status quo party, and largely ran as such. People are feeling economically squeezed and therefore voting incumbents out.
      - BLKNSLVR 2y ago
        So it sounds as if the left are attempting to cater to issues further up Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs than the majority of the voting populace think are important. That's interesting, because it feels like "the right" (in my experience and whatever left and right mean these days) wouldn't recognise or consider catering to anything above the two basic levels (and to be honest, the 'brutal truth' part of my own personality tells me that anything above those two basic levels is 'cream').
        steveBK123 2y ago
        Yes this is a good summation of the problem. People who worry about the price of groceries or basic car repairs to keep their older car on the road don’t want to hear how privileged they are due to their race (they might not be a minority but they aren’t rich) / how they are destroying the planet (they aren’t flying 10x year) / that kids who took out loans for expensive private college deserve free money (they didn’t even go to college or went to state school) / how democracy is at stake / etc.
        judahmeek 2y ago
- groggo 2y ago
  not banned tiktok