6 ms·

So, principles don't matter anymore? It's all about whose side you're on? Because I think all those "unfree" countries think the same thing.

riehwvfbk 2y ago
These people think that minimum wage "fact checkers" who delete posts that don't agree with their handbook are "freedom", not "censorship". So they think they have principles.
wrsh07 2y ago
This is an absolutely unhinged take. The US doesn't allow more than 25% foreign ownership of broadcast media. That's not some "free speech" violation. If a foreigner wants to say something, they have many ways to do it. But they don't have those privileged ways.
- Aerroon 2y ago
  But would you want the rest of the world to operate the same way? If ycombinator wants to show HN to somebody in Germany then they would have to spin off a company owned by Germans to be able to show HN there? Same for France and the other 170-200 countries in the world. This is obviously an unreasonable way for the internet to work.
  - wrsh07 2y ago
    Sorry what? I'm pretty sure HN is accessible in Germany. Are you trying to say there's some utilitarian principle where countries should allow companies from other countries to operate unrestricted? I'm a fan of free trade! That's a good thing! But tolerance is not a moral precept. We don't have to allow companies that report to hostile foreign governments to operate! Even among friendly nations, the European governments are fairly opinionated about how US tech companies are allowed to operate in Europe.
chpatrick 2y ago
Which principles are we talking about? If everyone under the age of 30 was using an app run by Nazi Germany would you be okay with that? Propaganda is a weapon and no principle says that you should let an enemy army into your country.
- blackoil 2y ago
  Nazi Germany was a democratically elected govt, which decided opposing propoganda must be blocked for the better of the nation. So irony?
  - chpatrick 2y ago
    So you would be fine if all the kids in your country used NaziTok?
    - 6P58r3MXJSLi 2y ago
      > NaziTok isn't that the codename for X these days?
      - 6P58r3MXJSLi 2y ago
        Oh, the irony! I thought I was joking (admittedly a really good joke) but I was actually looking into the future. https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2025/jan/21/the-gesture-speaks-for-itself-germans-divided-over-musks-apparent-nazi-salute https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2025/jan/21/the-gestu...
- 6P58r3MXJSLi 2y ago
  > If everyone under the age of 30 was using an app run by Nazi Germany would you be okay with that? First answer: I would ask myself why people are using a nazi-made app, first. OTOH: the history of nazism in the US is more complicated than you think A glimpse of it is summarized in the wikipedia page about it https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazism_in_the_Americas https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazism_in_the_Americas After all the US arrived first to the Moon thanks to "operation paperclip" and a a former nazi scientist.
stale2002 2y ago
All principles have exceptions. Just like how all normal people love free speech until it comes to CP and death threats (which of course should be banned).

riehwvfbk 2y ago

These people think that minimum wage "fact checkers" who delete posts that don't agree with their handbook are "freedom", not "censorship". So they think they have principles.

wrsh07 2y ago

This is an absolutely unhinged take. The US doesn't allow more than 25% foreign ownership of broadcast media. That's not some "free speech" violation. If a foreigner wants to say something, they have many ways to do it. But they don't have those privileged ways.

Aerroon 2y ago
But would you want the rest of the world to operate the same way? If ycombinator wants to show HN to somebody in Germany then they would have to spin off a company owned by Germans to be able to show HN there? Same for France and the other 170-200 countries in the world. This is obviously an unreasonable way for the internet to work.
- wrsh07 2y ago
  Sorry what? I'm pretty sure HN is accessible in Germany. Are you trying to say there's some utilitarian principle where countries should allow companies from other countries to operate unrestricted? I'm a fan of free trade! That's a good thing! But tolerance is not a moral precept. We don't have to allow companies that report to hostile foreign governments to operate! Even among friendly nations, the European governments are fairly opinionated about how US tech companies are allowed to operate in Europe.

chpatrick 2y ago

Which principles are we talking about? If everyone under the age of 30 was using an app run by Nazi Germany would you be okay with that? Propaganda is a weapon and no principle says that you should let an enemy army into your country.

blackoil 2y ago
Nazi Germany was a democratically elected govt, which decided opposing propoganda must be blocked for the better of the nation. So irony?
- chpatrick 2y ago
  So you would be fine if all the kids in your country used NaziTok?
  - 6P58r3MXJSLi 2y ago
    > NaziTok isn't that the codename for X these days?
    - 6P58r3MXJSLi 2y ago
      Oh, the irony! I thought I was joking (admittedly a really good joke) but I was actually looking into the future. https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2025/jan/21/the-gesture-speaks-for-itself-germans-divided-over-musks-apparent-nazi-salute https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2025/jan/21/the-gestu...
6P58r3MXJSLi 2y ago
> If everyone under the age of 30 was using an app run by Nazi Germany would you be okay with that? First answer: I would ask myself why people are using a nazi-made app, first. OTOH: the history of nazism in the US is more complicated than you think A glimpse of it is summarized in the wikipedia page about it https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazism_in_the_Americas https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazism_in_the_Americas After all the US arrived first to the Moon thanks to "operation paperclip" and a a former nazi scientist.

stale2002 2y ago

All principles have exceptions. Just like how all normal people love free speech until it comes to CP and death threats (which of course should be banned).