4 ms·

Is the hate for Meta so great that you actually trust a Chinese app more? China absolutely has zero privacy protection and everything explicitly runs through th

Is the hate for Meta so great that you actually trust a Chinese app more? China absolutely has zero privacy protection and everything explicitly runs through the great censor wall. Don’t mince words. Meta absolutely has issues with data collection but it’s comical to think they somehow China is better.

cameronh90 2y ago
What are China going to do to with my data that US companies haven't already done?
- brandonmenc 2y ago
  Help China's military.
- sanderjd 2y ago
  It has nothing to do with your data. That whole thing is a red herring. The risk with TikTok is that it presents media entirely algorithmically, and that algorithm is controllable by the Chinese government and is opaque to everyone else.
jpgvm 2y ago
[flagged]
- infecto 2y ago
  Yes retribution against Jack Ma is most certainly evidence that China is better. If you have a better example that this retribution case I am all ears. Comical you pick the first and single case that is directly tied to the Jack Ma incident.
- juliusgeo 2y ago
  I'm curious about your third assertion--I am definitely not a fan of the US government's current laissez-faire approach to regulation, but I was able to find a few examples of the US levying larger fines: British Petroleum (total settlement was 20b, but the Clean Water Act penalty was only 5.5b): https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/us-and-five-gulf-states-reach-historic-settlement-bp-resolve-civil-lawsuit-over-deepwater https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/us-and-five-gulf-states-reach... Wells Fargo: has had so many scandals, some of which were over 3b: https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/wells-fargo-agrees-pay-3-billion-resolve-criminal-and-civil-investigations-sales-practices https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/wells-fargo-agrees-pay-3-bill... In the article you linked, it mentions that this fine was 2.75b, or, 4% of Alibaba's 2019 revenue. I'm not knowledgeable enough in finance to state this as fact, but it looks like BP had a total revenue of 222B in 2015 [1]. 5.5b/222b = 2.47%. The total settlement would be 20b/222b = 9.01% Now, obviously there are many examples of companies being fined paltry amounts for massive violations in the US, and I'm not sure how to reconcile 5.5b for destroying an entire ocean ecosystem vs roughly the same fine for anti-trust violations. But I don't think it's true that the US never enforces its laws against large and valuable companies. Do you know of any good sources that compare the history of corporate fines in China vs the US in more detail? [1] https://www.bp.com/content/dam/bp/business-sites/en/global/corporate/pdfs/investors/bp-annual-report-and-form-20f-2015.pdf https://www.bp.com/content/dam/bp/business-sites/en/global/c...
ok123456 2y ago
As demonstrated by this ban, we're objectively worse now. The true threat to our democracy is a foreign power. It's just not China.
- infecto 2y ago
  Yes banning TikTok is a threat to democracy.
  - 383toast 2y ago
    Unironically it is
    - infecto 2y ago
      Just because you say it does not make it so. Oh the irony.
    - sanderjd 2y ago
      How so? The law was passed by democratically elected representatives in the US government.
      - ok123456 2y ago
        AIPAC (foreign lobby) money. They also profited heavily from picking favorites. Senator Cotton mysteriously increased his net wealth by 2 million in the past year.
        sanderjd 2y ago
        This is silly. Yes, there is a lot of money in American politics. No, that does not mean that any particular lobbying entity, even the AIPAC believe it or not!, controls what happens. This isn't a battle of moneyed interests vs. penniless altruists. There is plenty of money on TikTok's side here. If you find yourself buying into a simplistic narrative about a single organization buying the exact law they want, you've been had. It's never that simple.
bcrosby95 2y ago
As an American who has more power over me, powerful people in China or powerful people in America? Who is more likely to give my data to my government to adverse affect? Who is more likely to lobby my government to adverse affect?
- ethanwillis 2y ago
  What reasons would a foreign government want information about foreign citizens of its adversary? At the end of the day you are the outgroup when it comes to the CCP and it'd be best to remember that.
  - daemoens 2y ago
    If you are an American, the intelligence community already treats you like you are the outgroup.
    - ethanwillis 2y ago
      Which is another problem entirely but it's whataboutism. It says nothing about the CCPs motivations.
- ThrowawayR2 2y ago
  It's endlessly amusing that people are willing to speak positively of an authoritarian state, not even for a paycheck which one might not forgive but at least understand, but merely for their daily dose of brainrot[0] videos. [0] In the dictionary sense of the word: https://corp.oup.com/news/brain-rot-named-oxford-word-of-the-year-2024/ https://corp.oup.com/news/brain-rot-named-oxford-word-of-the...
- seabird 2y ago
  >Who is more likely to lobby my government to adverse affect? Dude, the concern is that allowing TikTok is quite literally allowing the CCP to indirectly lobby. It's how this whole thing got started in earnest. https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/07/business/tiktok-phone-calls-congress.html https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/07/business/tiktok-phone-cal... The geopolitical utility of the app is to give the CCP more power to manipulate and hurt you. They want to get closer to the level of power that domestic US powers-that-be have. I'm blown away that this seems to lost on so many people commenting here
kshacker 2y ago
What is the point of App Store rules if your privacy continues to be at risk. Oh yes, every single app must declare if it uses name, or email, or address, or camera, but all of them are exempt except TikTok? If you want to make the App Stores more stringent, sure, go for it. The issue is ability to manipulate people. However, should not the NSA monitor how the algo is working, and be empowered to cut off TikTok if for example you start seeing a million videos saying "Taiwan, the eastern province of China". I am sure we will still have control, we just need to be smart enough to "tap" into what content is being fed.
forgetfulness 2y ago
Data collection is a worry of the previous decade, the recommendation algorithm is the battle ground, the US has decided that it much prefers having Meta push its white supremacist and gender wars drivel non stop than what was being shown in TikTok (Israeli atrocities)
- infecto 2y ago
  While we are at it we should show the Hamas atrocities while we are at it. Would not be complete, without someone of the fake heart pull videos that Hamas traditionally put on as well.

cameronh90 2y ago

What are China going to do to with my data that US companies haven't already done?

brandonmenc 2y ago
Help China's military.
sanderjd 2y ago
It has nothing to do with your data. That whole thing is a red herring. The risk with TikTok is that it presents media entirely algorithmically, and that algorithm is controllable by the Chinese government and is opaque to everyone else.

jpgvm 2y ago

[flagged]

infecto 2y ago
Yes retribution against Jack Ma is most certainly evidence that China is better. If you have a better example that this retribution case I am all ears. Comical you pick the first and single case that is directly tied to the Jack Ma incident.
juliusgeo 2y ago
I'm curious about your third assertion--I am definitely not a fan of the US government's current laissez-faire approach to regulation, but I was able to find a few examples of the US levying larger fines: British Petroleum (total settlement was 20b, but the Clean Water Act penalty was only 5.5b): https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/us-and-five-gulf-states-reach-historic-settlement-bp-resolve-civil-lawsuit-over-deepwater https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/us-and-five-gulf-states-reach... Wells Fargo: has had so many scandals, some of which were over 3b: https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/wells-fargo-agrees-pay-3-billion-resolve-criminal-and-civil-investigations-sales-practices https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/wells-fargo-agrees-pay-3-bill... In the article you linked, it mentions that this fine was 2.75b, or, 4% of Alibaba's 2019 revenue. I'm not knowledgeable enough in finance to state this as fact, but it looks like BP had a total revenue of 222B in 2015 [1]. 5.5b/222b = 2.47%. The total settlement would be 20b/222b = 9.01% Now, obviously there are many examples of companies being fined paltry amounts for massive violations in the US, and I'm not sure how to reconcile 5.5b for destroying an entire ocean ecosystem vs roughly the same fine for anti-trust violations. But I don't think it's true that the US never enforces its laws against large and valuable companies. Do you know of any good sources that compare the history of corporate fines in China vs the US in more detail? [1] https://www.bp.com/content/dam/bp/business-sites/en/global/corporate/pdfs/investors/bp-annual-report-and-form-20f-2015.pdf https://www.bp.com/content/dam/bp/business-sites/en/global/c...

ok123456 2y ago

As demonstrated by this ban, we're objectively worse now. The true threat to our democracy is a foreign power. It's just not China.

infecto 2y ago
Yes banning TikTok is a threat to democracy.
- 383toast 2y ago
  Unironically it is
  - infecto 2y ago
    Just because you say it does not make it so. Oh the irony.
  - sanderjd 2y ago
    How so? The law was passed by democratically elected representatives in the US government.
    - ok123456 2y ago
      AIPAC (foreign lobby) money. They also profited heavily from picking favorites. Senator Cotton mysteriously increased his net wealth by 2 million in the past year.
      - sanderjd 2y ago
        This is silly. Yes, there is a lot of money in American politics. No, that does not mean that any particular lobbying entity, even the AIPAC believe it or not!, controls what happens. This isn't a battle of moneyed interests vs. penniless altruists. There is plenty of money on TikTok's side here. If you find yourself buying into a simplistic narrative about a single organization buying the exact law they want, you've been had. It's never that simple.

bcrosby95 2y ago

As an American who has more power over me, powerful people in China or powerful people in America? Who is more likely to give my data to my government to adverse affect? Who is more likely to lobby my government to adverse affect?

ethanwillis 2y ago
What reasons would a foreign government want information about foreign citizens of its adversary? At the end of the day you are the outgroup when it comes to the CCP and it'd be best to remember that.
- daemoens 2y ago
  If you are an American, the intelligence community already treats you like you are the outgroup.
  - ethanwillis 2y ago
    Which is another problem entirely but it's whataboutism. It says nothing about the CCPs motivations.
ThrowawayR2 2y ago
It's endlessly amusing that people are willing to speak positively of an authoritarian state, not even for a paycheck which one might not forgive but at least understand, but merely for their daily dose of brainrot[0] videos. [0] In the dictionary sense of the word: https://corp.oup.com/news/brain-rot-named-oxford-word-of-the-year-2024/ https://corp.oup.com/news/brain-rot-named-oxford-word-of-the...
seabird 2y ago
>Who is more likely to lobby my government to adverse affect? Dude, the concern is that allowing TikTok is quite literally allowing the CCP to indirectly lobby. It's how this whole thing got started in earnest. https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/07/business/tiktok-phone-calls-congress.html https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/07/business/tiktok-phone-cal... The geopolitical utility of the app is to give the CCP more power to manipulate and hurt you. They want to get closer to the level of power that domestic US powers-that-be have. I'm blown away that this seems to lost on so many people commenting here

kshacker 2y ago

What is the point of App Store rules if your privacy continues to be at risk. Oh yes, every single app must declare if it uses name, or email, or address, or camera, but all of them are exempt except TikTok? If you want to make the App Stores more stringent, sure, go for it. The issue is ability to manipulate people. However, should not the NSA monitor how the algo is working, and be empowered to cut off TikTok if for example you start seeing a million videos saying "Taiwan, the eastern province of China". I am sure we will still have control, we just need to be smart enough to "tap" into what content is being fed.

forgetfulness 2y ago

Data collection is a worry of the previous decade, the recommendation algorithm is the battle ground, the US has decided that it much prefers having Meta push its white supremacist and gender wars drivel non stop than what was being shown in TikTok (Israeli atrocities)

infecto 2y ago
While we are at it we should show the Hamas atrocities while we are at it. Would not be complete, without someone of the fake heart pull videos that Hamas traditionally put on as well.