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Thank you! I can't believe how much defense I see of TikTok on here. Is this website being specifically targeted for astroturfing, or has TikTok been that effec

Thank you! I can't believe how much defense I see of TikTok on here. Is this website being specifically targeted for astroturfing, or has TikTok been that effective in spreading its propaganda? (And which one is scarier?)

2OEH8eoCRo0 2y ago
> Is this website being specifically targeted for astroturfing Of course
handity 2y ago
It is not defense of TikTok to point out that all platforms are practically identical: centralized, closed source networks that collect ridiculously detailed data about millions of people, and are in a position to process that data for all kinds of fun stuff like surveilling people's physical movement, creating recommendation algorithms, performing sentiment analysis, and using those tools to try to manipulate populations, influence public thought, and sway elections. There is no behavior that TikTok exhibits that isn't equally applicable to every major social media. I don't particularly care whether right now, the CCP happens to use that manipulative potential for its own ends more than the US does. It shouldn't be hard to take a principled stand against dystopian surveillance. I don't understand people who correctly point out that TikTok is a "vector for influence of public opinion", but somehow think that's only a bad thing if it's controlled by a "geopolitical adversary".
- cscurmudgeon 2y ago
  > I don't understand people who correctly point out that TikTok is a "vector for influence of public opinion", but somehow think that's only a bad thing if it's controlled by a "geopolitical adversary". By your implied logic, the US should allow Chinese police to function on US soil as the US already had US police on US soil.
  - ninkendo 2y ago
    As I read more and more comments like GP’s In this thread, I keep getting this vision of a man in France in 1940 welcoming nazi tanks to his town because “well, we have a military too, how is this any different, they’re just a geopolitical adversary” and “well, we had a corrupt politician once last year so our government is just as bad”.
- _dark_matter_ 2y ago
  Baby steps! Let's do both. Let's rid ourselves of a foreign adversaries influence, then let's ALSO get more competition and reduce big techs influence. Why not both?
BeFlatXIII 2y ago
To be fair, you're the astroturf for domestic Big Tech.
- _dark_matter_ 2y ago
  Maybe! Hard to tell. Personally I don't think big tech should own this space, I'd love to see a variety of companies and lots of startups. I'll leave it to the reader to decide if I'm astroturfing.
coldpie 2y ago
I'm a US citizen, not being paid by China, and I've never used TikTok, but I think this ban is bad. I believe Mark Zuckerberg and Elon Musk are bigger threats to the people that live in the US than China is. This ban gives them more power by eliminating one of their largest competitors. That's bad.
- breadwinner 2y ago
  The solution is not to allow TikTok but to reduce the influence of social media in the first place. As exposed by whistleblower Frances Haugen, Facebook's algorithms favored content that generated anger and division, which in turn increased user engagement. Facebook now wants to return to that algorithm.
  - coldpie 2y ago
    Agreed. I would be all in favor of a law that applied to Tiktok, Facebook, X, and all others equally. Singling out Tiktok is just a transparent handout to the US's tech oligarchs, which is worse than doing nothing.
robswc 2y ago
I've seen this TikTok thing turn staunch leftists into libertarians overnight. I think a lot of normal and applicable arguments aren't entirely valid when the company in question is more or less an entity of a political adversary.

2OEH8eoCRo0 2y ago

> Is this website being specifically targeted for astroturfing Of course

handity 2y ago

It is not defense of TikTok to point out that all platforms are practically identical: centralized, closed source networks that collect ridiculously detailed data about millions of people, and are in a position to process that data for all kinds of fun stuff like surveilling people's physical movement, creating recommendation algorithms, performing sentiment analysis, and using those tools to try to manipulate populations, influence public thought, and sway elections. There is no behavior that TikTok exhibits that isn't equally applicable to every major social media. I don't particularly care whether right now, the CCP happens to use that manipulative potential for its own ends more than the US does. It shouldn't be hard to take a principled stand against dystopian surveillance. I don't understand people who correctly point out that TikTok is a "vector for influence of public opinion", but somehow think that's only a bad thing if it's controlled by a "geopolitical adversary".

cscurmudgeon 2y ago
> I don't understand people who correctly point out that TikTok is a "vector for influence of public opinion", but somehow think that's only a bad thing if it's controlled by a "geopolitical adversary". By your implied logic, the US should allow Chinese police to function on US soil as the US already had US police on US soil.
- ninkendo 2y ago
  As I read more and more comments like GP’s In this thread, I keep getting this vision of a man in France in 1940 welcoming nazi tanks to his town because “well, we have a military too, how is this any different, they’re just a geopolitical adversary” and “well, we had a corrupt politician once last year so our government is just as bad”.
_dark_matter_ 2y ago
Baby steps! Let's do both. Let's rid ourselves of a foreign adversaries influence, then let's ALSO get more competition and reduce big techs influence. Why not both?

BeFlatXIII 2y ago

To be fair, you're the astroturf for domestic Big Tech.

_dark_matter_ 2y ago
Maybe! Hard to tell. Personally I don't think big tech should own this space, I'd love to see a variety of companies and lots of startups. I'll leave it to the reader to decide if I'm astroturfing.

coldpie 2y ago

I'm a US citizen, not being paid by China, and I've never used TikTok, but I think this ban is bad. I believe Mark Zuckerberg and Elon Musk are bigger threats to the people that live in the US than China is. This ban gives them more power by eliminating one of their largest competitors. That's bad.

breadwinner 2y ago
The solution is not to allow TikTok but to reduce the influence of social media in the first place. As exposed by whistleblower Frances Haugen, Facebook's algorithms favored content that generated anger and division, which in turn increased user engagement. Facebook now wants to return to that algorithm.
- coldpie 2y ago
  Agreed. I would be all in favor of a law that applied to Tiktok, Facebook, X, and all others equally. Singling out Tiktok is just a transparent handout to the US's tech oligarchs, which is worse than doing nothing.

robswc 2y ago

I've seen this TikTok thing turn staunch leftists into libertarians overnight. I think a lot of normal and applicable arguments aren't entirely valid when the company in question is more or less an entity of a political adversary.