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It may be that hire paying fields attract men who want to be able to attract mates. That women prefer men who make more than them is pretty established in rese

It may be that hire paying fields attract men who want to be able to attract mates. That women prefer men who make more than them is pretty established in research, as is is the lack of interest in what a woman makes as income. (On average in psych studies). Why wouldn’t we expect results and society to reflect this?

kiitos 2y ago
It's not -- "why wouldn't we expect important career X to have way more men than women, given <whatever>" It's -- "if important career X has way more men than women, is this a good thing, at a net societal level, regardless of <whatever> that can explain why this is the case?" Nobody is looking for complete and perfect parity in all influential careers. The intent is just to make sure that, for the highest-impact careers, we should work towards making them representative of our society, as much as possible
- xxreasonable 2y ago
  Do you believe some better out come for society as a whole, or some individuals in society will benefit from this intervention? Why? And at what cost? Your question implies serval beliefs, which may or may not be true. And that others may, or may not share. For one, I don’t think the average developer has a ton of say on how products get made. So that’s not likely the power you’re seeking to ensure changes hands? Market forces and legal structure pretty much ensure enshitification and other outcomes which many would likely consider sub optimal.
  - sulam 2y ago
    It is well established that teams with more representation make better decisions, likely because of their diversity of viewpoints. It is worthwhile both to companies and to society to have higher quality decision-making in fields like finance and in roles like chief executives.
    - bdangubic 2y ago
      citation(s) for this well established claim?
      - kiitos 2y ago
        https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/56/%22The_Terrible_Sea_Lion%22._Wondermark_comic_strip_No._1062_by_David_Malki_%2819_September_2014%29.png https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/56/%22The_Terrib...
      - Manuel_D 2y ago
        The most commonly cited study is the McKinsey survey. But they didn't release their actual data set until years after publication, and when they did their analysis was thoroughly criticized: https://econjwatch.org/File+download/1296/GreenHandMar2024.pdf?mimetype=pdf https://econjwatch.org/File+download/1296/GreenHandMar2024.p...
  - kiitos 2y ago
    It doesn't matter if the average developer has any say on how products get made. What matters is the salary that developers earn, in general, at a demographic level, is generally among the highest. And it's important that the highest-salary occupations in a society, are equally available to everyone in that society, invariant to class or race or gender or creed or anything else -- measured by outcome, not by opportunity.

kiitos 2y ago

It's not -- "why wouldn't we expect important career X to have way more men than women, given <whatever>" It's -- "if important career X has way more men than women, is this a good thing, at a net societal level, regardless of <whatever> that can explain why this is the case?" Nobody is looking for complete and perfect parity in all influential careers. The intent is just to make sure that, for the highest-impact careers, we should work towards making them representative of our society, as much as possible

xxreasonable 2y ago
Do you believe some better out come for society as a whole, or some individuals in society will benefit from this intervention? Why? And at what cost? Your question implies serval beliefs, which may or may not be true. And that others may, or may not share. For one, I don’t think the average developer has a ton of say on how products get made. So that’s not likely the power you’re seeking to ensure changes hands? Market forces and legal structure pretty much ensure enshitification and other outcomes which many would likely consider sub optimal.
- sulam 2y ago
  It is well established that teams with more representation make better decisions, likely because of their diversity of viewpoints. It is worthwhile both to companies and to society to have higher quality decision-making in fields like finance and in roles like chief executives.
  - bdangubic 2y ago
    citation(s) for this well established claim?
    - kiitos 2y ago
      https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/56/%22The_Terrible_Sea_Lion%22._Wondermark_comic_strip_No._1062_by_David_Malki_%2819_September_2014%29.png https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/56/%22The_Terrib...
    - Manuel_D 2y ago
      The most commonly cited study is the McKinsey survey. But they didn't release their actual data set until years after publication, and when they did their analysis was thoroughly criticized: https://econjwatch.org/File+download/1296/GreenHandMar2024.pdf?mimetype=pdf https://econjwatch.org/File+download/1296/GreenHandMar2024.p...
- kiitos 2y ago
  It doesn't matter if the average developer has any say on how products get made. What matters is the salary that developers earn, in general, at a demographic level, is generally among the highest. And it's important that the highest-salary occupations in a society, are equally available to everyone in that society, invariant to class or race or gender or creed or anything else -- measured by outcome, not by opportunity.