4 ms·

What confession? Link? I haven’t heard of this

• numpad0 2y ago
  I'm referring to mass defederation, defederation list sharing and mutual surveillance that followed it.
  • Gud 2y ago
    Link please?
  • kemotep 2y ago
    Why is everyone required to federate with everyone on ActivityPub? What if I want to only see Wordpress, Peertube, and Pixelfed content but nothing from Mastodon or Lemmy? How is that problematic as an ActivityPub client? Or I only want Spanish language content?
    • dingnuts 2y ago
      in practice that's not the kind of content that is defederated. what is defederated is usually for ideological reasons, but sometimes it's because of illegal content (there's a lot of Japanese Misskey instances that will happily federate images to you that are questionably legal to possess in the US whether you want them on your drive or not) or out of spam control / distrust (small instances often have trouble federating) ironically when I used Mastodon, while dealing with these issues, I was unable to filter out other languages. So in addition to extremely questionable content, a lot of it was simply in another language. ActivityPub is a really half baked protocol and the sooner we realize that and move on from it the better. Personally, I didn't feel that defederation was an adequate defense against those MissKey instances and I decided running an instance is a very big liability.
      • kemotep 2y ago
        I guess I just have a unicorn of an instance because I never see these issues. Yes there is a large list of servers defederated but many of them are at best 4chan tier content which I can easily find on 4chan no need for my mastodon feed to have everything under the sun on it. Like I get that moving instances or between applications isn’t really possible on AP and there is concerns with moderation and so on but it’s been the best internet experience I’ve had. It’s a bubble but I easily just come here or to 4chan or reddit to see outside that bubble.
        • numpad0 2y ago
          The second largest Mastodon instance is Chinese, third and fourth Japanese, fifth NSFW exclusive. Third and fourth combined is 32% larger than the first, fourth also has about 4x more post per user(~49 vs ~195). The list I'm referring does not include Misskey-based systems(also APub based). Defederation is not a huge issue if you assume and embrace a segregationist view and cut off likely major fractions of the organically formed Fediverse out of itself. After all it's porn and scripts you don't even recognize, what's the point in having them? My insistence is, that's a fresh dead canary in cage. 1: https://instances.social/list/advanced#min-users=100000 https://instances.social/list/advanced#min-users=100000
          • kemotep 2y ago
            If I want a feed of 100 people who post statuses/tweets, blogs, videos, and pictures who I am interested in and by using ActivityPub can use a single client to view all this activity, is that by your definition segregationist and a dead canary? I don’t understand how if I host my own AP client on my own hardware and choose only to federate and subscribe with a small subset of sites and people who post using AP that this is a bad thing. I can use other websites like Hacker News to see other opinions and views.
    • numpad0 2y ago
      Because otherwise social graphs and organic exchanges don't work. I'm not joining a Mastodon server to passively consume curated collection of serfs owned by benevolent server admins offer. Yet, that's the model of users and communities in Mastodon as it is.
      • kemotep 2y ago
        Is there any kind of social media that doesn’t become a serfdom in your opinion? I mean Hacker News falls under that definition as well yet here you are consuming a curated feed.
        • numpad0 2y ago
          Are there thousands of HN?
          • kemotep 2y ago
            I don’t understand the question. You are currently using one of the most heavily moderated sites on the internet complaining that another platform which allows individuals to create their own clients which to view content published on the protocol has servers that you are not required to use that are too moderated?
      • beowulfey 2y ago
        I'm not sure I follow you. It sounds like you expect to receive from every instance, and in turn expect all to receive from yours? I don't see the appeal; it sounds like it would devolve into white noise
        • numpad0 2y ago
          I'm expecting random person to reply to my comments here, and expect my reply to yours shown to you. I don't expect* others to be on a blocked sub-cluster of HN server that my comments would not show or someone else's response to be removed from my sight. *: for the sake of argument
  • dartos 2y ago
    That’s literally the moderation model of federated networks at work. Each instance chooses to adopt defederating lists. If you don’t like that make your own instance.
    • AnthonyMouse 2y ago
      It's doing this at the instance level rather than the user level which is the problem. The long-term result of that is a few large instances that default-block smaller instances, so then people switch from the smaller instances to the larger ones that aren't blocked, creating new instances becomes unviable and the market concentrates into an oligopoly susceptible to capture by ideologues.
      • unshavedyak 2y ago
        There’s a similar issue with server priority and federating too. At least last I saw, maybe a year ago. Eg if I run a small server I have a difficult time getting my updates federated quickly because other servers have a lot of fire hoses to manage. You end up low on the priority list and less likely to be seen. In my experience from last I tried, at least.
      • dartos 2y ago
        > It's doing this at the instance level rather than the user level which is the problem It’s always at the instance level. They own the machine. The difference between federated networks and decentralized networks is that the main control is with node operators vs cryptographic key holders. You’re looking for a decentralized solution, not a federated one.
        • AnthonyMouse 2y ago
          > It’s always at the instance level. They own the machine. The point is that there shouldn't be any "the" machine for users to get locked into as a chokepoint. If you want to block someone, you block them, or delegate it to someone in a way that you can later change at no switching cost to yourself. > The difference between federated networks and decentralized networks is that the main control is with node operators vs cryptographic key holders. Fully decentralized networks have to solve a difficult technical problem: If your device is offline, who is hosting your stuff? How do you make it fast and reliable? Federation solves that by hosting your stuff on an always-on server somewhere, which you get to choose and should be able to trivially switch at any time without affecting your social graph or account name or who is blocked by anybody in any way. Instead of your stuff being hosted nowhere, each person gets to pick, which can and should be independent of any moderation or other considerations. The benefit, and goal, of federation here should be to make the hosting node a fungible commodity. You can also federate moderation by, for example, choosing a moderator who publishes a block list that you can subscribe to. But these two things should not be linked together. Doing so is a mistake. As many things of this nature should be made separate as possible and with the lowest achievable switching costs, to inhibit forces that tend toward market concentration. Federation works when there are thousands of federated instances that integrate seamlessly with one another, not when there are four that are significantly isolated from one another and you need state-level resources to spin up a fifth.