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While there's a ban on overt politics, a lot of social discourse is ultimately political. It's impossible to discuss health care approaches for example. Americ

While there's a ban on overt politics, a lot of social discourse is ultimately political. It's impossible to discuss health care approaches for example. Americans believe in for profit Healthcare, while (most everyone else) tend to favor universal health care (despite its many imperfections. ) And that's before we discuss other tricky topics like the military etc. There are plenty of folk ready to downvote based on opinion rather than discussion. So yes, there's plenty of echo chamber here - but equally plenty of alternate thinkers, not to mention nutters. This is ultimately how human societies work.

thrwwawayyay 2y ago
Yes try making a comment in favor of bulk data collection by the intelligence agencies, or stating that Snowden's actions caused significant harm and really only helped adversaries - to give two examples. Even if you write a well argued and decently sourced comment, it's very likely to get flagged by people with ideological disagreements to this. And there are a lot of them on HN, so your comment will likely disappear pretty quickly.
- AnthonyMouse 2y ago
  > try making a comment in favor of bulk data collection by the intelligence agencies, or stating that Snowden's actions caused significant harm and really only helped adversaries - to give two examples. Those are both the same example, and sometimes comments get downvoted because they're just making a bad or vacuous argument for an indefensible position. It's obvious why intelligence agencies want to do bulk data collection, and the reason is related to why it's a problem -- the public needs to be protected against bulk data collection by foreign intelligence agencies, and by domestic ones with insufficient oversight. "Oversight" in a democracy means the public knows about it, otherwise how can there even be a debate about whether it's worth it? But intelligence agencies aren't in favor of oversight of intelligence agencies, so they'll always be in favor of surveillance even if it isn't worth it, which is why they can't be allowed to do it in secret and anyone bringing it into the light is acting in the public interest. Moreover, bulk surveillance isn't worth it, because if you don't build technology that can resist bulk surveillance then foreign governments will do it to your population and the cost of that exceeds any benefit from you being able to do it to others, even before you account for the domestic cost of having a surveillance apparatus already in place in the event that an oppressive administration comes to power.
  - NoMoreNicksLeft 2y ago
    About 18 months ago, there was an article (here on HN) suggesting that The Cheesecake Factory (an American casual dining restaurant, big chain) made their food from scratch. This is trivially debunked. Go to their website, which has the menu for all locations in North America, and you can see for yourself that there is practically nothing that would or could be made from scratch. Everything, literally every menu item at the time, was something that could be brought frozen and reheated there (on a grill more likely than in microwaves, but I don't know which). Furthermore, I pointed out how I drive past one every day to go to work, and twice a week in the morning I will see the Sysco truck unloading in the back of the restaurant. Even the fucking salad, such as they are, are in plastic bags and dumped into a bowl. Pointing this out though, was worthy of more than one downvote. Why? Does HN have some deep bench of experts on American casual dining chains? Is it a technology topic? No, the echo chamber had already decided, and going against this insults the echo chamber even if there is no emotional investment. When I said there was an echo chamber, I pointed out that I was excluding politics because you kind of just expect that. But it's literally about everything no matter how trivial it should be. I have had many examples over the years, and if there were a point to it I could give you an exhaustive list. This is the human condition. Forever arguing over stupid shit for the rest of eternity, or at least until doomsday, which I suspect is less than a century off.
    - AnthonyMouse 2y ago
      > This is trivially debunked. Go to their website, which has the menu for all locations in North America, and you can see for yourself that there is practically nothing that would or could be made from scratch. Everything, literally every menu item at the time, was something that could be brought frozen and reheated there (on a grill more likely than in microwaves, but I don't know which). I mean, what? So for example, Thai Chicken Salad: https://www.thecheesecakefactory.com/menu/salads/thai-chicken-salad https://www.thecheesecakefactory.com/menu/salads/thai-chicke... It has leafy greens that would get soggy if frozen or combined with the other ingredients for shipping. There is a slice of lime on the side. I doubt they ship them pre-sliced or heat the lime with the rest of the food. It's presumably "from scratch" in the same way that Blue Apron is and not in the sense that there is a local chef shopping at the local wholesale market to decide what to put on the local menu. But it's possible to distinguish the former from the thing where your meal comes out of a freezer and goes into a microwave as a single unit, with the latter implying that it contains no ingredients that haven't been frozen or stuffed so full of preservatives that they'll biodegrade some decades after the wrapper does. And even if some items have ingredients that could be frozen, that doesn't tell you whether or not they actually were. Or, for that matter, that a meal made "from scratch" couldn't have any frozen ingredients.

thrwwawayyay 2y ago

Yes try making a comment in favor of bulk data collection by the intelligence agencies, or stating that Snowden's actions caused significant harm and really only helped adversaries - to give two examples. Even if you write a well argued and decently sourced comment, it's very likely to get flagged by people with ideological disagreements to this. And there are a lot of them on HN, so your comment will likely disappear pretty quickly.

AnthonyMouse 2y ago
> try making a comment in favor of bulk data collection by the intelligence agencies, or stating that Snowden's actions caused significant harm and really only helped adversaries - to give two examples. Those are both the same example, and sometimes comments get downvoted because they're just making a bad or vacuous argument for an indefensible position. It's obvious why intelligence agencies want to do bulk data collection, and the reason is related to why it's a problem -- the public needs to be protected against bulk data collection by foreign intelligence agencies, and by domestic ones with insufficient oversight. "Oversight" in a democracy means the public knows about it, otherwise how can there even be a debate about whether it's worth it? But intelligence agencies aren't in favor of oversight of intelligence agencies, so they'll always be in favor of surveillance even if it isn't worth it, which is why they can't be allowed to do it in secret and anyone bringing it into the light is acting in the public interest. Moreover, bulk surveillance isn't worth it, because if you don't build technology that can resist bulk surveillance then foreign governments will do it to your population and the cost of that exceeds any benefit from you being able to do it to others, even before you account for the domestic cost of having a surveillance apparatus already in place in the event that an oppressive administration comes to power.
- NoMoreNicksLeft 2y ago
  About 18 months ago, there was an article (here on HN) suggesting that The Cheesecake Factory (an American casual dining restaurant, big chain) made their food from scratch. This is trivially debunked. Go to their website, which has the menu for all locations in North America, and you can see for yourself that there is practically nothing that would or could be made from scratch. Everything, literally every menu item at the time, was something that could be brought frozen and reheated there (on a grill more likely than in microwaves, but I don't know which). Furthermore, I pointed out how I drive past one every day to go to work, and twice a week in the morning I will see the Sysco truck unloading in the back of the restaurant. Even the fucking salad, such as they are, are in plastic bags and dumped into a bowl. Pointing this out though, was worthy of more than one downvote. Why? Does HN have some deep bench of experts on American casual dining chains? Is it a technology topic? No, the echo chamber had already decided, and going against this insults the echo chamber even if there is no emotional investment. When I said there was an echo chamber, I pointed out that I was excluding politics because you kind of just expect that. But it's literally about everything no matter how trivial it should be. I have had many examples over the years, and if there were a point to it I could give you an exhaustive list. This is the human condition. Forever arguing over stupid shit for the rest of eternity, or at least until doomsday, which I suspect is less than a century off.
  - AnthonyMouse 2y ago
    > This is trivially debunked. Go to their website, which has the menu for all locations in North America, and you can see for yourself that there is practically nothing that would or could be made from scratch. Everything, literally every menu item at the time, was something that could be brought frozen and reheated there (on a grill more likely than in microwaves, but I don't know which). I mean, what? So for example, Thai Chicken Salad: https://www.thecheesecakefactory.com/menu/salads/thai-chicken-salad https://www.thecheesecakefactory.com/menu/salads/thai-chicke... It has leafy greens that would get soggy if frozen or combined with the other ingredients for shipping. There is a slice of lime on the side. I doubt they ship them pre-sliced or heat the lime with the rest of the food. It's presumably "from scratch" in the same way that Blue Apron is and not in the sense that there is a local chef shopping at the local wholesale market to decide what to put on the local menu. But it's possible to distinguish the former from the thing where your meal comes out of a freezer and goes into a microwave as a single unit, with the latter implying that it contains no ingredients that haven't been frozen or stuffed so full of preservatives that they'll biodegrade some decades after the wrapper does. And even if some items have ingredients that could be frozen, that doesn't tell you whether or not they actually were. Or, for that matter, that a meal made "from scratch" couldn't have any frozen ingredients.