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Many of the issues you mention though are real dealbreakers for those trying to use this as a private user. It's really a big adoption barrier not being able to

Many of the issues you mention though are real dealbreakers for those trying to use this as a private user. It's really a big adoption barrier not being able to join big rooms without the server 'melting'. Those rooms are big because they have a lot to offer. Those of us promoting matrix as a next gen truly free and federated platform have always expected these to be fixed. It's just not really fit for purpose without those fixes. It doesn't inspire confidence that we have to wait for this to 'trickle down' to the free version. And ok yeah I think it's a good idea to kill concurrent product development that does the same thing. As long as it makes the remaining product better. So there's also a Rust version of FOSS Synapse? I wasn't aware of that. Even the official blog post speaks only of python for the community version. > By making optimisations that primarily support massive servers proprietary (for now), the $ can hopefully then fund features and maintenance of core FOSS Synapse Your own blog post about the pro version (and the one about forking synapse) basically said that you wouldn't be working on the community version at all anymore? Unless I misunderstood. But my takeaway from this is 'it's a dead duck, it's time to pay up'. Which is a bit worrying as this is the kind of price only viable for large corporations.

Arathorn 2y ago
You’ve totally misunderstood me - probably my fault; sorry. There is no trickle-down happening here: *these issues will be fixed directly in FOSS synapse, which is the core project*. They are nothing to do with rust worker implementations in Synapse Pro, and FOSS will get them first. The only reason they haven’t been fixed before is due to the freerider nightmare meaning there hasn’t been $ to fund the work. FOSS Synapse has had Rust in it for years now: https://github.com/element-hq/synapse/tree/develop/rust/src https://github.com/element-hq/synapse/tree/develop/rust/src > Your own blog post about the pro version (and the one about forking synapse) basically said that you wouldn't be working on the community version at all anymore? WHAT?! It’s the opposite! We’re trying to fund the FOSS dev!! Where did it say that?!
- wkat4242 2y ago
  Ok sorry for misunderstanding you. I'm glad those will be fixed and in the FOSS implementation <3 I thought this might happen only if things work out with the pro version first. > WHAT?! It’s the opposite! We’re trying to fund the FOSS dev!! Where did it say that?! Ah sorry it looks like I also misunderstood this blog post from 2023: https://matrix.org/blog/2023/11/06/future-of-synapse-dendrite/ https://matrix.org/blog/2023/11/06/future-of-synapse-dendrit... I thought the community version was left for the community to maintain when it was forked. Especially because the foundation said they wouldn't be able to fund further development. But I see now that it just meant that element would become the official host for synapse. With the other blog post (the recent one about synapse pro) it just goes into so much detail about the shortcomings of the community version that it kinda implies they won't be fixed. After all, if that were the case one could just wait and the problem would solve itself. But I apologise for drawing the wrong conclusions and arguing for them here. I do really understand you're in a difficult position. And I don't have a solution either.
  - Arathorn 2y ago
    np, thanks for listening to my explanation and for the apology - sorry on my side for yelling. i’m terrified now that the various blog posts haven’t been clear enough about the plan though - seems like we should have made it much clearer that FOSS synapse is still the primary project, and everything will happen there first (other than optimisations to support massive scalability)
s1mplicissimus 2y ago
Not only is there a rust version of synapse, it has been existing for years before Element decided to fork it unilaterally [1]. Just to be clear: the current development on dendrite has mostly not been done by element, but by a volunteer community. The rugpull can be observed here [2] by the playbook so many others have used: - Create commercial offering - Add some breakwards compatibility breaking shit to the repo - Declare the project dead - Old users are now basically forced into "the new" product [1] https://matrix.org/blog/2023/11/06/future-of-synapse-dendrite/ https://matrix.org/blog/2023/11/06/future-of-synapse-dendrit... [2] https://github.com/matrix-org/dendrite/issues https://github.com/matrix-org/dendrite/issues
ezst 2y ago
> Those of us promoting matrix as a next gen truly free and federated platform have always expected these to be fixed. It's just not really fit for purpose without those fixes. For what's worth, I stopped promoting Matrix for that exact reason. And instead of waiting for Matrix to sort itself out, I gave XMPP a second look, and ended up adopting it for what Matrix was promising to become "soon". That was 8 years ago and the outcome would be the same today (or maybe more favourable to XMPP as it feels to have evolved more than Matrix in that timespan).

Arathorn 2y ago

You’ve totally misunderstood me - probably my fault; sorry. There is no trickle-down happening here: *these issues will be fixed directly in FOSS synapse, which is the core project*. They are nothing to do with rust worker implementations in Synapse Pro, and FOSS will get them first. The only reason they haven’t been fixed before is due to the freerider nightmare meaning there hasn’t been $ to fund the work. FOSS Synapse has had Rust in it for years now: https://github.com/element-hq/synapse/tree/develop/rust/src https://github.com/element-hq/synapse/tree/develop/rust/src > Your own blog post about the pro version (and the one about forking synapse) basically said that you wouldn't be working on the community version at all anymore? WHAT?! It’s the opposite! We’re trying to fund the FOSS dev!! Where did it say that?!

wkat4242 2y ago
Ok sorry for misunderstanding you. I'm glad those will be fixed and in the FOSS implementation <3 I thought this might happen only if things work out with the pro version first. > WHAT?! It’s the opposite! We’re trying to fund the FOSS dev!! Where did it say that?! Ah sorry it looks like I also misunderstood this blog post from 2023: https://matrix.org/blog/2023/11/06/future-of-synapse-dendrite/ https://matrix.org/blog/2023/11/06/future-of-synapse-dendrit... I thought the community version was left for the community to maintain when it was forked. Especially because the foundation said they wouldn't be able to fund further development. But I see now that it just meant that element would become the official host for synapse. With the other blog post (the recent one about synapse pro) it just goes into so much detail about the shortcomings of the community version that it kinda implies they won't be fixed. After all, if that were the case one could just wait and the problem would solve itself. But I apologise for drawing the wrong conclusions and arguing for them here. I do really understand you're in a difficult position. And I don't have a solution either.
- Arathorn 2y ago
  np, thanks for listening to my explanation and for the apology - sorry on my side for yelling. i’m terrified now that the various blog posts haven’t been clear enough about the plan though - seems like we should have made it much clearer that FOSS synapse is still the primary project, and everything will happen there first (other than optimisations to support massive scalability)

s1mplicissimus 2y ago

Not only is there a rust version of synapse, it has been existing for years before Element decided to fork it unilaterally [1]. Just to be clear: the current development on dendrite has mostly not been done by element, but by a volunteer community. The rugpull can be observed here [2] by the playbook so many others have used: - Create commercial offering - Add some breakwards compatibility breaking shit to the repo - Declare the project dead - Old users are now basically forced into "the new" product [1] https://matrix.org/blog/2023/11/06/future-of-synapse-dendrite/ https://matrix.org/blog/2023/11/06/future-of-synapse-dendrit... [2] https://github.com/matrix-org/dendrite/issues https://github.com/matrix-org/dendrite/issues

ezst 2y ago

> Those of us promoting matrix as a next gen truly free and federated platform have always expected these to be fixed. It's just not really fit for purpose without those fixes. For what's worth, I stopped promoting Matrix for that exact reason. And instead of waiting for Matrix to sort itself out, I gave XMPP a second look, and ended up adopting it for what Matrix was promising to become "soon". That was 8 years ago and the outcome would be the same today (or maybe more favourable to XMPP as it feels to have evolved more than Matrix in that timespan).