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I'm pretty sick of Element and Matrix at this point, and I'm pretty sure the enthusiasts are the only ones keeping Matrix relevant. This monetization scheme is

by jchw 2y ago

I'm pretty sick of Element and Matrix at this point, and I'm pretty sure the enthusiasts are the only ones keeping Matrix relevant. This monetization scheme is not going to work. I think the Matrix experiment is coming to an end. I'm about to fork Dendrite at its last ASL 2.0 version, because to hell with signing a CLA for Element.

fishgoesblub 2y ago
I'm tired of all the issues with Matrix as well. I've never had a message get received or a notification pushed in less than 10 minutes. Went back to XMPP and messages are instant. I want to love Matrix. E2EE, proper federation, voice calls, But the experience is terrible.
- tcfhgj 2y ago
  > I've never had a message get received or a notification pushed in less than 10 minutes. I receive messages < 10 seconds. What's your setup?
  - fishgoesblub 2y ago
    Element (Later ElementX) On android, and same on iOS. Tried various other clients like Fluffychat, and SchildiChat.
    - Arathorn 2y ago
      Presumably you’re using an overloaded server which is struggling because we have been completely undermanned on synapse maintenance and haven’t been able to do core optimisation work. This is precisely why we’re trying to fund our FOSS work by selling Synapse Pro.
      - throwaway48476 2y ago
        Proprietary licenses don't align developer incentives with customers. Instead you should consider non commercial licenses that convert to open source after some time, eg 5 years. Customers won't pay for development unless forced to and it creates a tragedy of the commons. No large commercial deployment will accept 5 year out of date broken insecure software. Non paying users won't care that they can't use it commercially
- NewJazz 2y ago
  I've used matrix a lot and this doesn't sound normal.
benatkin 2y ago
There's Zulip. Better to avoid the protocol at this point, after Matrix transferred Synapse to Element.
- ezst 2y ago
  Last I checked, zulip doesn't "federate"? I suspect this is a bigger deal for people who landed with Matrix than just "open source rooms with pretty UI" (rocket chat, mattermost, revolt, .. the alternatives there are many, while I see only XMPP being a compelling one for federated chat)
progval 2y ago
Why not fork from the latest version? It's provided as AGPL, and you don't need to sign the CLA as you are not going to contribute to the upstream anyway.
- jchw 2y ago
  Because they haven't done anything terribly interesting anyways, so unless I prefer AGPL there's no point. I'm pretty sure I will wind up diverging very quickly if I actually commit to this.
  - NewJazz 2y ago
    And upstream doesn't have significant intentions for dendrite right now... Relevant btw re: licensing: https://stgraber.org/2023/12/12/lxd-now-re-licensed-and-under-a-cla/ https://stgraber.org/2023/12/12/lxd-now-re-licensed-and-unde...

by jchw 2y ago

fishgoesblub 2y ago

I'm tired of all the issues with Matrix as well. I've never had a message get received or a notification pushed in less than 10 minutes. Went back to XMPP and messages are instant. I want to love Matrix. E2EE, proper federation, voice calls, But the experience is terrible.

tcfhgj 2y ago
> I've never had a message get received or a notification pushed in less than 10 minutes. I receive messages < 10 seconds. What's your setup?
- fishgoesblub 2y ago
  Element (Later ElementX) On android, and same on iOS. Tried various other clients like Fluffychat, and SchildiChat.
  - Arathorn 2y ago
    Presumably you’re using an overloaded server which is struggling because we have been completely undermanned on synapse maintenance and haven’t been able to do core optimisation work. This is precisely why we’re trying to fund our FOSS work by selling Synapse Pro.
    - throwaway48476 2y ago
      Proprietary licenses don't align developer incentives with customers. Instead you should consider non commercial licenses that convert to open source after some time, eg 5 years. Customers won't pay for development unless forced to and it creates a tragedy of the commons. No large commercial deployment will accept 5 year out of date broken insecure software. Non paying users won't care that they can't use it commercially
NewJazz 2y ago
I've used matrix a lot and this doesn't sound normal.

benatkin 2y ago

There's Zulip. Better to avoid the protocol at this point, after Matrix transferred Synapse to Element.

ezst 2y ago
Last I checked, zulip doesn't "federate"? I suspect this is a bigger deal for people who landed with Matrix than just "open source rooms with pretty UI" (rocket chat, mattermost, revolt, .. the alternatives there are many, while I see only XMPP being a compelling one for federated chat)

progval 2y ago

Why not fork from the latest version? It's provided as AGPL, and you don't need to sign the CLA as you are not going to contribute to the upstream anyway.

jchw 2y ago
Because they haven't done anything terribly interesting anyways, so unless I prefer AGPL there's no point. I'm pretty sure I will wind up diverging very quickly if I actually commit to this.
- NewJazz 2y ago
  And upstream doesn't have significant intentions for dendrite right now... Relevant btw re: licensing: https://stgraber.org/2023/12/12/lxd-now-re-licensed-and-under-a-cla/ https://stgraber.org/2023/12/12/lxd-now-re-licensed-and-unde...