4 ms·

Very interesting! Don't wasps have a similar "swarm attack" mode that doesn't require individual wasps dying to spread pheromones? Something in the sting/venom

by the_af 2y ago

Very interesting! Don't wasps have a similar "swarm attack" mode that doesn't require individual wasps dying to spread pheromones? Something in the sting/venom itself? I've been stung by wasp swarms twice, in the same area (they were protecting their nest, and please don't ask why it happened twice... we humans do indeed stumble with the same stone twice!). The wasps were very aggressive stinging near the same location in my arm, and it hurt a lot. I was stung in the same body part by the swarm, not in random locations. No wasps were harmed during this accident.

cryptonector 2y ago
Wasps absolutely have attack pheromones, and they absolutely spread those when they get injured (in the same way that bees do when they're injured) and when they attack (but here they might be able to do it "consciously"?). What's nice about wasp stings is that because the stinger with the venom pouch and pump doesn't get stuck in your skin you get a much smaller dose than with a bee sting. When I've been stung by bees where the stinger didn't get stuck in my skin the sting was no big deal. When the stinger gets stuck in my skin it's much worse.
fuzztester 2y ago
Wasp bites are a lot more painful than mosquito bites.
- the_af 2y ago
  Mosquito bites are not painful at all to me. I've been stung by a bee only once, and it wasn't particularly painful (but not nothing, of course). As I mentioned above, I've been stung by swarms of wasps twice and it was very painful. I hear yellowjacket stings are extremely painful, but even though I've been near them I've never been stung... fortunately.
  - fuzztester 2y ago
    >Mosquito bites are not painful at all to me. interesting. I had a friend who was like that. once he invited me to a jazz concert near a river in the city where we both lived. river = mosquitoes. it was around 7 to 8 p.m. there was a shitload of mosquitoes around, and they were biting me and other people like mad, but he seemed completely unaffected. I asked him, aren't you being troubled by them? he said no. I had had enough, and ran away from both the concert and those mosquitoes. I have been stung by wasps a few times, and it is a lot more painful than a mosquito bite. yellowjacket seems to be an American term. I had to look it up. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellowjacket https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellowjacket
    - the_af 2y ago
      Don't get me wrong, I hate mosquitoes and don't like being stung (both because of dengue fever risks in the case of aedes, and because it itches a lot afterwards), but I never find their bite painful. I suppose it depends on the kind of mosquito? I do know -- cause I've been bitten -- that horseflies hurt like hell, because their mouth parts have evolved to pierce cattle skin! "Yellowjacket" is the translation I found for a kind of wasp we have in Argentina's Patagonia, where we call them "chaquetas" (Spanish for jackets). I think they might be imports and not native though, but now they are very frequent in our region.
ChrisMarshallNY 2y ago
Depends on the wasp/bee species. Not all of them swarm. Also, ants are related to wasps, and you will see similar behavior with them. I had a friend, when I was a kid, that shot a white-faced hornet nest (not actually hornets -they are big yellowjackets -even worse) with a BB gun, from, like, 50 meters away. The hornets figured out who shot their nest, and swarmed him. May have just been that they attacked any nearby critters, but he certainly paid for his folly. White-faced hornets are better to have in your yard, than yellowjackets. They are a lot less aggressive, only attacking if their nest is at risk. They also eat yellowjackets, so you have hornets or yellowjackets, but not both.
- the_af 2y ago
  Wow. Those hornets seem surprisingly clever. I know Yellowjackets, we have them in Argentina. Their bite is said to be extremely painful but I haven't been bitten yet despite some pretty reckless behavior on my part. One nice afternoon I was having a snack in a cafeteria, by the open window, and a bunch of yellowjackets started dipping in my drinks and my pie. Apparently they like raw meat (locals use it to drive them away from their own food) but I only had sweet stuff on my table. I got annoyed and killed a bunch of them with my bare hands, with no repercussions (killing dangerous insects with your fists or palms is surprisingly easy if you strike fast against a flat surface -- obviously I waited till they moved away from my stuff). I was later told this was a terrible idea because their bite is very painful (see above: I'm not the smartest about bugs and have been bitten more than once due to recklessness!).
  - ChrisMarshallNY 2y ago
    White-faced hornets[0] are a lot more painful than yellowjackets[1] (they are about twice as big, but pretty much the same configuration). I don't think yellowjackets will swarm, if a forager gets killed. Don't step on one of their nests, though (they dig holes). Also have a friend who did that, once. Also, if you get close to one of their nests (hard to see), they might swarm you. The biggest difference, is that yellowjackets are much more aggressive foragers, so it's easy to piss off individuals. I had [yet another] friend that imbibed one that went into his can of soda. He tells me the experience left his lip swollen like a cartoon, for several days. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolichovespula_maculata https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolichovespula_maculata [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellowjacket https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellowjacket
rstuart4133 2y ago
We have a very common species of wasp where I live: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ropalidia_revolutionalis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ropalidia_revolutionalis As the article says, they are mankind's friend. Mostly. I've only seen them attack when protecting their nest. But they swarm when doing so, they can sting multiple times, and they so common building a nest near your front door is a regular occurrence. So despite them being a good insect to have around being asked to dispose of a nest is regular fatherhood experience. Most use insect strays. Lighting an A4 sheet under the nest also works. Both are gruesome ends for the nest. Over time I noticed their attacks are driven by motion. When their nests are disturbed they buzz around, home in on the nearest moving thing and sting it. That usually provokes more movement, with more stings sure to follow. Running involves lots of movement, and you have to cover a lot of ground before they give up. They hurt like buggery, but they've never done me serious damage and this behaviour suggested a different approach might work. Sadly it was when the kids were near adulthood when I worked up to the gumption to try it out. You approach the nest with no weapons, and no defences. You move slowly. Very slowly. With your bare fingers, you twist the nest around and around, until it breaks and falls to the ground. (I hope they fly off to live another day, but who knows.) The wasps do get angry and buzz around for a while, but don't know what to attack. You have to back away very with the same grace you used in your approach. I've made it work for small nests. I've had fail for large nests, but even then not reacting when you are stung does seem to limit the damage to a couple of stings. I'm not to proud too claim it's a fine demonstration of some manly qualities. I haven't done it in a while. Time has moved on, kids have moved out, I've moved houses into a bushland setting, or maybe I've just got older and finally earned the gift of wisdom [0]. Nonetheless the story continues to be useful - it's great for keeping sons and son-in-laws in their place. [0] I suspect it's the move to bushland. I've never seen these wasps when bush walking. Yes, mankind has inflicted a lot of suffering on these wasps. But I suspect the suburbs we built are a utopia for them.

by the_af 2y ago

cryptonector 2y ago

Wasps absolutely have attack pheromones, and they absolutely spread those when they get injured (in the same way that bees do when they're injured) and when they attack (but here they might be able to do it "consciously"?). What's nice about wasp stings is that because the stinger with the venom pouch and pump doesn't get stuck in your skin you get a much smaller dose than with a bee sting. When I've been stung by bees where the stinger didn't get stuck in my skin the sting was no big deal. When the stinger gets stuck in my skin it's much worse.

fuzztester 2y ago

Wasp bites are a lot more painful than mosquito bites.

the_af 2y ago
Mosquito bites are not painful at all to me. I've been stung by a bee only once, and it wasn't particularly painful (but not nothing, of course). As I mentioned above, I've been stung by swarms of wasps twice and it was very painful. I hear yellowjacket stings are extremely painful, but even though I've been near them I've never been stung... fortunately.
- fuzztester 2y ago
  >Mosquito bites are not painful at all to me. interesting. I had a friend who was like that. once he invited me to a jazz concert near a river in the city where we both lived. river = mosquitoes. it was around 7 to 8 p.m. there was a shitload of mosquitoes around, and they were biting me and other people like mad, but he seemed completely unaffected. I asked him, aren't you being troubled by them? he said no. I had had enough, and ran away from both the concert and those mosquitoes. I have been stung by wasps a few times, and it is a lot more painful than a mosquito bite. yellowjacket seems to be an American term. I had to look it up. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellowjacket https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellowjacket
  - the_af 2y ago
    Don't get me wrong, I hate mosquitoes and don't like being stung (both because of dengue fever risks in the case of aedes, and because it itches a lot afterwards), but I never find their bite painful. I suppose it depends on the kind of mosquito? I do know -- cause I've been bitten -- that horseflies hurt like hell, because their mouth parts have evolved to pierce cattle skin! "Yellowjacket" is the translation I found for a kind of wasp we have in Argentina's Patagonia, where we call them "chaquetas" (Spanish for jackets). I think they might be imports and not native though, but now they are very frequent in our region.

ChrisMarshallNY 2y ago

Depends on the wasp/bee species. Not all of them swarm. Also, ants are related to wasps, and you will see similar behavior with them. I had a friend, when I was a kid, that shot a white-faced hornet nest (not actually hornets -they are big yellowjackets -even worse) with a BB gun, from, like, 50 meters away. The hornets figured out who shot their nest, and swarmed him. May have just been that they attacked any nearby critters, but he certainly paid for his folly. White-faced hornets are better to have in your yard, than yellowjackets. They are a lot less aggressive, only attacking if their nest is at risk. They also eat yellowjackets, so you have hornets or yellowjackets, but not both.

the_af 2y ago
Wow. Those hornets seem surprisingly clever. I know Yellowjackets, we have them in Argentina. Their bite is said to be extremely painful but I haven't been bitten yet despite some pretty reckless behavior on my part. One nice afternoon I was having a snack in a cafeteria, by the open window, and a bunch of yellowjackets started dipping in my drinks and my pie. Apparently they like raw meat (locals use it to drive them away from their own food) but I only had sweet stuff on my table. I got annoyed and killed a bunch of them with my bare hands, with no repercussions (killing dangerous insects with your fists or palms is surprisingly easy if you strike fast against a flat surface -- obviously I waited till they moved away from my stuff). I was later told this was a terrible idea because their bite is very painful (see above: I'm not the smartest about bugs and have been bitten more than once due to recklessness!).
- ChrisMarshallNY 2y ago
  White-faced hornets[0] are a lot more painful than yellowjackets[1] (they are about twice as big, but pretty much the same configuration). I don't think yellowjackets will swarm, if a forager gets killed. Don't step on one of their nests, though (they dig holes). Also have a friend who did that, once. Also, if you get close to one of their nests (hard to see), they might swarm you. The biggest difference, is that yellowjackets are much more aggressive foragers, so it's easy to piss off individuals. I had [yet another] friend that imbibed one that went into his can of soda. He tells me the experience left his lip swollen like a cartoon, for several days. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolichovespula_maculata https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolichovespula_maculata [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellowjacket https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellowjacket

rstuart4133 2y ago

We have a very common species of wasp where I live: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ropalidia_revolutionalis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ropalidia_revolutionalis As the article says, they are mankind's friend. Mostly. I've only seen them attack when protecting their nest. But they swarm when doing so, they can sting multiple times, and they so common building a nest near your front door is a regular occurrence. So despite them being a good insect to have around being asked to dispose of a nest is regular fatherhood experience. Most use insect strays. Lighting an A4 sheet under the nest also works. Both are gruesome ends for the nest. Over time I noticed their attacks are driven by motion. When their nests are disturbed they buzz around, home in on the nearest moving thing and sting it. That usually provokes more movement, with more stings sure to follow. Running involves lots of movement, and you have to cover a lot of ground before they give up. They hurt like buggery, but they've never done me serious damage and this behaviour suggested a different approach might work. Sadly it was when the kids were near adulthood when I worked up to the gumption to try it out. You approach the nest with no weapons, and no defences. You move slowly. Very slowly. With your bare fingers, you twist the nest around and around, until it breaks and falls to the ground. (I hope they fly off to live another day, but who knows.) The wasps do get angry and buzz around for a while, but don't know what to attack. You have to back away very with the same grace you used in your approach. I've made it work for small nests. I've had fail for large nests, but even then not reacting when you are stung does seem to limit the damage to a couple of stings. I'm not to proud too claim it's a fine demonstration of some manly qualities. I haven't done it in a while. Time has moved on, kids have moved out, I've moved houses into a bushland setting, or maybe I've just got older and finally earned the gift of wisdom [0]. Nonetheless the story continues to be useful - it's great for keeping sons and son-in-laws in their place. [0] I suspect it's the move to bushland. I've never seen these wasps when bush walking. Yes, mankind has inflicted a lot of suffering on these wasps. But I suspect the suburbs we built are a utopia for them.