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Honeybee queens are the only honeybees with stingers that don't die when they sting. That's because the queen bee's stinger has no barbs, and the reason for th
by cryptonector 2y ago
Honeybee queens are the only honeybees with stingers that don't die when they sting. That's because the queen bee's stinger has no barbs, and the reason for that is that the queen must not die easily, and she must use her stinger, so if she's going to survive at all her stinger has to not have barbs. The queen almost certainly has to use her stinger when she exits her cocoon: to kill ther other queens that are about to hatch or have hatched already. She also has to possibly use her stinger when she goes out to mate (though she does go with attendants who will defend her if attacked).
I was surprised not to find mention of this in TFA.
> A honey bee dies when it stings you because its stinger is covered in barbs, causing its abdomen to get ripped out when it tries to fly away. And surviving with your guts spilling out everywhere is pretty bloody hard.
There's another interesting detail here: when the worker tries to fly off after stinging, she has to try really hard because the barbs hold the stinger in place, and trying hard causes two things to happen:
- noise that attracts other workers
to attack the same creature
- spreading of the dying bee's
distress pheromones that also
attract other workers to sting
the same creature
So when you get stung by a bee near other bees you will be in trouble. That's how you go from one sting to hundreds. And hundreds is enough to kill a human. That's why you don't go near a hive without protection. Being in or near a swarm is safer than being near a hive: the bees in a swarm don't have much (larvae, honey) to protect, so they don't attack.
- abnercoimbre 2y agoUseful reminder nature is terrifying even at its smallest. I'm a little surprised this wasn't taught to me in school.
- nejsjsjsbsb 2y agoYeah: caterpillar parasites
- teeray 2y agoThe queen bee is a formidable final boss with a bad-ass origin story.
- cryptonector 2y agoShe's also her daughters' slave. They make her work (lay eggs). They decide when to make new queens. They decide when to swarm with the old queen, and when they do they put her on a diet first so she can lose weight so she can fly (they won't let her eat much for two weeks), and they'll push her out of the hive when the time comes. Humans only really get stung by queen honeybees when manipulating them. Normally the queen will be inside the hive and stay inside the hive except once or twice early in her life when she goes out to mate.
- stavros 2y agoWhy does she go out to mate? Aren't the drones in the hive?
- geoka9 2y agoMaybe for the same reason we don't marry our cousins? :)
- Jedd 2y agoI think two answers, though as per TFA there's probably a lot more behind this: First, she wants to get the best genetic material, and flying high is one of those tests for drones to pass, and Second, needs to acquire genetic material from different bloodlines, hence does the business with several drones (obviously not an option within the hive).
- cryptonector 2y agoThe drones in the hive are her brothers. She needs more gentic diversity, so she goes out to mate with other colonies' drones. Her attendants know where to go find them because they've scouted them before.
- ternnoburn 2y agoThe drones are also clones (?) of the prior queen. They are unfertilized eggs, so they contain a genetic copy of half the queen's DNA. Mating with a drone from you hive would be like mating directly with your genetic mother. It's going to result in real bad inbreeding real quickly. Especially since queens mate a single time, and live for only a few years.
- ianbicking 2y agoThis maybe points to another theory (which may be entirely wrong, I'm just guessing!): honeybees die because they aren't supposed to attack each other. Like they can't be aggressively selfish because they'll just die in the process.
- cryptonector 2y agoHoneybees do attack other colonies' honeybees. Africanized honeybees definitely do it. As someone else points out the barbs don't get stuck in insects, but do get stuck in mammals (and presumably birds too?).
- fuzztester 2y agoChecked them. Found: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Africanized_bee https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Africanized_bee
- cryptonector 2y ago> Africanized honey bees are typically much more defensive, react to disturbances faster, and chase people further (400 metres (1,300 ft)) than other varieties of honey bees. My bees will chase me about 200 yards, and probably more if I had to go further to go inside a building (they don't like dark places). They lay ambushes, too. They'll wait outside the building I go into and will attack again if I go out. Well, they used to anyways. Since switching to top-bar hive bodies they're much nicer.
- treis 2y ago>The queen almost certainly has to use her stinger when she exits her cocoon: to kill ther other queens I think this is one of the more interesting differences. Plenty of species operate in groups. But its usually a dominant male with a harem. Bees and the like are unusual in that it's a dominant female. I think it's related to the ease of reproduction. The females put relatively little into their off spring compared to a lion or even birds. It lets them to be essentially autonomous in reproduction which allows them to create offspring that are more like limbs.
- ajuc 2y agoThere's 13 000 species of ants and 6000 species of mammals, not to count all the other insects. We are the unusual ones. BTW there are mammals that live in insect-like groups - for example https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naked_mole-rat#Roles https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naked_mole-rat#Roles
- cryptonector 2y agoThere are bees that are monogamous, where the female and the male act a lot more like birds as far as mating and young rearing goes, and there are eusocial bees that where the female absolutely dominates. Honeybees keep very few males (drones) around, and in the Fall they push them out of the hive and let them die of exposure to the elements. Honeybee workers work themselves to death. The queen is their slave. It's a pretty crappy life, but they make wonderful honey, and they collect wonderful propolis.
- zamfi 2y ago> It's a pretty crappy life By human standards, sure. Weird take I know, but since only one female bee in the hive passes along her genes (which are shared with the other bees), it's a very different incentive structure.
- ChrisMarshallNY 2y agoFrom what I can tell, the entire hive is “the” organism, and individual bees are like cells in the body. There was an episode of Cosmos, where Neil deGrasse Tyson described bees as the other of two major intelligences on Earth, and suggested their structure as a model for alien visitors[0]. If we judged ourselves by the cells in our body, we’d probably conclude that humans aren’t “happy.” White blood cells basically run suicide missions against intruders, so they are sort of like swarming worker bees. [0] https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ubE9hjrsHmI https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ubE9hjrsHmI
- ivankelly 2y agoThe bees in a swarm have filled themselves with food before swarming, so they’re stuffed, so it’s hard to flex the abdomen to make a sting
- cryptonector 2y agoYes, there is this too.
- the_af 2y agoVery interesting! Don't wasps have a similar "swarm attack" mode that doesn't require individual wasps dying to spread pheromones? Something in the sting/venom itself? I've been stung by wasp swarms twice, in the same area (they were protecting their nest, and please don't ask why it happened twice... we humans do indeed stumble with the same stone twice!). The wasps were very aggressive stinging near the same location in my arm, and it hurt a lot. I was stung in the same body part by the swarm, not in random locations. No wasps were harmed during this accident.
- cryptonector 2y agoWasps absolutely have attack pheromones, and they absolutely spread those when they get injured (in the same way that bees do when they're injured) and when they attack (but here they might be able to do it "consciously"?). What's nice about wasp stings is that because the stinger with the venom pouch and pump doesn't get stuck in your skin you get a much smaller dose than with a bee sting. When I've been stung by bees where the stinger didn't get stuck in my skin the sting was no big deal. When the stinger gets stuck in my skin it's much worse.
- fuzztester 2y agoWasp bites are a lot more painful than mosquito bites.
- the_af 2y agoMosquito bites are not painful at all to me. I've been stung by a bee only once, and it wasn't particularly painful (but not nothing, of course). As I mentioned above, I've been stung by swarms of wasps twice and it was very painful. I hear yellowjacket stings are extremely painful, but even though I've been near them I've never been stung... fortunately.
- fuzztester 2y ago>Mosquito bites are not painful at all to me. interesting. I had a friend who was like that. once he invited me to a jazz concert near a river in the city where we both lived. river = mosquitoes. it was around 7 to 8 p.m. there was a shitload of mosquitoes around, and they were biting me and other people like mad, but he seemed completely unaffected. I asked him, aren't you being troubled by them? he said no. I had had enough, and ran away from both the concert and those mosquitoes. I have been stung by wasps a few times, and it is a lot more painful than a mosquito bite. yellowjacket seems to be an American term. I had to look it up. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellowjacket https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellowjacket
- the_af 2y ago> so if she's going to survive at all her stinger has to not have barbs. The queen almost certainly has to use her stinger when she exits her cocoon: to kill ther other queens that are about to hatch or have hatched already But in this particular case the queen is no different from worker bees, right? They wouldn't die either from stinging other bees...
- cryptonector 2y agoMy understanding is that the barbs in the stingers don't get stuck in insects, but I don't know if that's a fact. At any rate the queen is sometimes irreplaceable, so she needs every survival advantage possible.
- crazydoggers 2y agoGreat point about the queen bee. The queen also uses her stinger inside her own hive. If the hive believes she is nearing the end of her reproductive abilities, they’ll rear other queens. She has to defend her position and quickly goes to kill the new queens when they emerge or she’ll be replaced. Beekeepers generally replace their queens every 2 years or so, and have to remove the old queen to prevent this behavior as well. > That's why you don't go near a hive without protection. This is true and recommended for just about everyone.. however, I have known some beekeepers that can do it. If you smoke the bees well, they’ll get calm enough that they won’t sting. It’s thought to be likely because the smoke covers pheromones, and also because the smoke causes the bees to begin hoarding honey in case they need to quickly leave a burning hive. I was never brave enough to attempt it, however during my time beekeeping I was amazed at how magical smoke was. Picking up handfuls of bees in their hive and not being swarmed feels like a super power.
- cryptonector 2y ago> I was never brave enough to attempt it, however during my time beekeeping I was amazed at how magical smoke was. Picking up handfuls of bees in their hive and not being swarmed feels like a super power. I'm not brave enough to attempt it either, except -maybe, someday- with a) smoke, b) a veil instead of a suit, c) nukes rather than mature hives, d) in top-bar hive bodies rather than Langstroth boxes. Fuck Langstroth boxes -- you can't help but kill bees in those boxes, and the moment you kill one you're in trouble. Top-bar hives make it much much easier to not kill any bees.
- cryptonector 2y agoBTW, when I get stung, if the stinger doesn't get stuck I sometimes don't even notice till much later -- this happens when I get stung through my gloves. If the stinger does get stuck in my skin the first thing I notice is the buzzing of the bee that stung me. The frequency of the buzzing of the bee that stung me and that is trying to rip off the stinger is absolutely terrifying because I know what comes next: a dozen more bees will flock right to where the one bee stung me and will all try to sting me, and since the one bee was able to it might be the case that her sisters will succeed as well. That buzzing spreads her injury pheromones, and the frequency of its sound also acts as a very loud and clear signal to her sisters. The buzzing lasts about 1 second or less; the pain from the sting comes a second or two later. It takes her sisters about 1 to 2 seconds to find the bee that stings successfully. Getting stung by a dozen bees at once is panic inducing, and the swelling that will create will take two weeks to subside. I was stung 13 times at once one time, and 5 times another time. It's no fun.
- jimmaswell 2y agoWhy are bee stings such a common occurance to you? Are you a beekeeper?
- cryptonector 2y agoI am.
- majgr 2y agoWhat I noticed is that pitch of buzzing is higher when bee is attacking, not after sting. Higher pitch means probably higher frequency of wings, so bee has more velocity and it is more nimble. When I was kid visiting frequently a place with 100 hives in a summer. I started to recognize that pitch of attacking bee and learned to keep head lower, between arms. Sometimes I was chased by a bee several tens of meters. It is good to use cover of some trees or bushes. I believe bees are aroused by smell of venom itself. Sometimes, when hive is opened, bees turn their abdomen higher, towards opening showing stings. I think I saw that drops of venom forms around end of sting. Smoke particles, probably bonds to venom vapors, neutralizing its influence on other bees, because after couple smoke puffs venom smell is not noticeable any more. Also, smoke causes bees to change their process, from „intruder alert”, to „tree is burning”, and are turning on ventilation. Each summer, first sting swelled the worst, but consecutive ones were less so, so I think some tolerance develops, but it won’t last a year. The worst is being stung in fingertip, because it causes nail deformation, for some time.
- WaitWaitWha 2y agoNice, another beek! I have had a hive where I had queens that lived quite fine together. Weirdest hive as one of them was a caucasia and the other a cordovan. Never did get stung with those ladies. Mine was by accident, but I hear that some beeks do it since cannot get the genetic combination, they just do it as a mechanical combo, to get preferred traits. Like buckfast and russian to help with swarming and defensiveness.
- cryptonector 2y agoI've heard of queens co-existing, yeah, but that must be very rare. I wonder if somehow they either smell close enough to the same that they and the workers don't notice, or if they are sufficiently different that they don't recognize their smells as those of other queens.
- credit_guy 2y agoFor some reason I was never afraid of bees. I have a cousin who keeps bees, and she showed me a bee hive once. Neither of use used any masks or gloves. I remember when she showed me the queen, and I was pointing at it to make sure I got it right, she told me to not touch her, because then the other bees will sense the foreign smell on her and will kill her. In any case, I was surrounded by thousands of bees, but none stang me or my cousin. There's some urban legend that bees smell you, and depending on the smell they decide to attack you or not. I suppose I drew the lucky lottery ticket.
- ciupicri 2y agoDoes TFA stand for "the f...ine article"?
- cryptonector 2y agoAnd/or the fine author.
- permo-w 2y agothe featured article
- lnxg33k1 2y agoIt becomes like pearl harbour