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If, by the grace of tech Jesus, amd gave us such systems at volumes Nvidia would notice, Nvidia would simply then do the same but with a better ecosystem. The

If, by the grace of tech Jesus, amd gave us such systems at volumes Nvidia would notice, Nvidia would simply then do the same but with a better ecosystem. The biggest problem for AMD is not that the majority of people want to use AMD. It is that the majority of people want AMD to be more competitive so that Nvidia will be forced to drop prices so that people can afford Nvidia products. Until this pattern changes, AMD has a big uphill battle. Same for Intel, except Intel is at least seemingly doing great gen/gen improvements in mid/low range consumer GPUs and bringing healthy vram along for the ride.

holoduke 2y ago
It can change quickly. Great example is the short domination of the ati 9700 that crushed nvidia for a short while.
llm_trw 2y ago
The same could ba said for CPUs from Intel and AMD 5 years ago. Now people, myself included, buy AMD because it is simply the better choice.
- MindSpunk 2y ago
  The difference with AMD and Intel when zen launched is that AMD launched a product that utterly destroyed Intel’s line up in productivity workloads. Zen 1 launched with double the cores of the competing intel chip at the same price point. The benchmarks were a bloodbath and intel struggled to respond with a competitive product for 4 years. Arguably they still haven’t caught up. AMD just brutally out executed Intel. Doing that to nvidia would be a tall order
  - llm_trw 2y ago
    Core wise Intel had the advantage until the last generation or two. The same can be true for gpus, just add a ton more memory and watch them fly off the shelves.
    - SecretDreams 2y ago
      Intel P cores still do well against amd zen5. But their stacking cache is chef's kiss.
    - mschuster91 2y ago
      > The same can be true for gpus, just add a ton more memory and watch them fly off the shelves. Yeah... for datacenters and people attempting to jump on the AI hype train. Meanwhile your everyday regular gamer has zero chance competing for GPUs with the infinite money coffers from AI. Seriously, the sooner this crazy bubble bursts the better. I thought the shitcoin mining days were bad but at least everyone back then knew the game for GPUs was over once the first Bitcoin ASIC was released, but now? No end in sight and frankly I'm pissed.
      - llm_trw 2y ago
        The AI bubble will burst the same way the internet bubble did: First explosively, then never.
    - MindSpunk 2y ago
      Intel can match or outperform Zen 5 in many benchmarks (X3D still trashes them in games) and are trading blows now, they just have to use double the power envelope to do it. Arc and Battlemage are not very competitive designs with AMD going off die size and transistor count compared to the performance numbers they're posting. Battlemage pricing however is quite good on price to performance, but again suffers from efficiency where AMD has them beat by quite a margin.
AnthonyMouse 2y ago
> If, by the grace of tech Jesus, amd gave us such systems at volumes Nvidia would notice, Nvidia would simply then do the same but with a better ecosystem. Not if they have "a better ecosystem" -- they would continue to charge a premium for that. Which creates a dilemma for Nvidia. If they would match AMD's pricing, they'd be losing all the money they could get by charging more, which is a ton. Whereas if they charge more, they get more today from the people who pay the premium, but some people are more price sensitive than others, so there are still a lot of people who would buy "lots of VRAM for less money" from AMD. And soon AMD has a lot of users, improves their software support and the difference disappears entirely. Forcing the larger competitor into that dilemma is very much to the advantage of the smaller competitor.

holoduke 2y ago

It can change quickly. Great example is the short domination of the ati 9700 that crushed nvidia for a short while.

llm_trw 2y ago

The same could ba said for CPUs from Intel and AMD 5 years ago. Now people, myself included, buy AMD because it is simply the better choice.

MindSpunk 2y ago
The difference with AMD and Intel when zen launched is that AMD launched a product that utterly destroyed Intel’s line up in productivity workloads. Zen 1 launched with double the cores of the competing intel chip at the same price point. The benchmarks were a bloodbath and intel struggled to respond with a competitive product for 4 years. Arguably they still haven’t caught up. AMD just brutally out executed Intel. Doing that to nvidia would be a tall order
- llm_trw 2y ago
  Core wise Intel had the advantage until the last generation or two. The same can be true for gpus, just add a ton more memory and watch them fly off the shelves.
  - SecretDreams 2y ago
    Intel P cores still do well against amd zen5. But their stacking cache is chef's kiss.
  - mschuster91 2y ago
    > The same can be true for gpus, just add a ton more memory and watch them fly off the shelves. Yeah... for datacenters and people attempting to jump on the AI hype train. Meanwhile your everyday regular gamer has zero chance competing for GPUs with the infinite money coffers from AI. Seriously, the sooner this crazy bubble bursts the better. I thought the shitcoin mining days were bad but at least everyone back then knew the game for GPUs was over once the first Bitcoin ASIC was released, but now? No end in sight and frankly I'm pissed.
    - llm_trw 2y ago
      The AI bubble will burst the same way the internet bubble did: First explosively, then never.
  - MindSpunk 2y ago
    Intel can match or outperform Zen 5 in many benchmarks (X3D still trashes them in games) and are trading blows now, they just have to use double the power envelope to do it. Arc and Battlemage are not very competitive designs with AMD going off die size and transistor count compared to the performance numbers they're posting. Battlemage pricing however is quite good on price to performance, but again suffers from efficiency where AMD has them beat by quite a margin.

AnthonyMouse 2y ago

> If, by the grace of tech Jesus, amd gave us such systems at volumes Nvidia would notice, Nvidia would simply then do the same but with a better ecosystem. Not if they have "a better ecosystem" -- they would continue to charge a premium for that. Which creates a dilemma for Nvidia. If they would match AMD's pricing, they'd be losing all the money they could get by charging more, which is a ton. Whereas if they charge more, they get more today from the people who pay the premium, but some people are more price sensitive than others, so there are still a lot of people who would buy "lots of VRAM for less money" from AMD. And soon AMD has a lot of users, improves their software support and the difference disappears entirely. Forcing the larger competitor into that dilemma is very much to the advantage of the smaller competitor.