3 ms·

AfD is not the oldest, or even that old of a party. And they absolutely are neo Nazis. Not sure if you're thinking about another party, or just sympathetic to t

AfD is not the oldest, or even that old of a party. And they absolutely are neo Nazis. Not sure if you're thinking about another party, or just sympathetic to their garbage worldview, but ignorance isn't an excuse to carry water for Nazis.

wakawaka28 2y ago
My bad, it indeed seems to not be the oldest. But it is certainly not brand new or unpopular. Can you give me evidence that they are Nazis? I don't mean finding a few Nazis that happen to be members, I mean proof that their platform is the Nazi program. As I'm sure you are aware, the Nazi party is banned in Germany and even displaying Nazi symbology can get you in trouble there.
- karmakurtisaani 2y ago
  > I don't mean finding a few Nazis that happen to be members Ah the few local Nazis that just happened to stumble upon the membership, while the rest of them were just fine with it. Reminds me of the good old "you're not marching with Nazis, you are a Nazi".
  - wakawaka28 2y ago
    It was a serious question. You are free to answer it. I'm going to assume you're full of it if you don't answer it.
    - karmakurtisaani 2y ago
      The serious answer is this: Nazis strive to replace democratic government with a fascist dictatorship. They wish to get rid of people they deem as their enemies. Anyone who tolerates people with ideology like this cannot be viewed as anything but the same as them. So, if your party has a few Nazis, it's all Nazis.
      - wakawaka28 2y ago
        >The serious answer is this: Nazis strive to replace democratic government with a fascist dictatorship. So how is it democracy to ban this party and harass its members again? Should Germans be concerned about other parties adopting fascist tactics to control who they can vote for? >They wish to get rid of people they deem as their enemies. So like the left, correct? >So, if your party has a few Nazis, it's all Nazis. Nobody has presented me with proof that any Nazis are in AfD, and that there are no Nazis in other parties. I don't know if AfD is open like US political parties, where one can just claim to be a member. But unless someone is at least widely known to be an open Nazi, and the party registered them as a member with full knowledge of that (or at least refused to revoke membership of a known Nazi), it's all slander. What is your take on the leadership of Ukraine having literal bonafide Nazis in it? Are they a concern of yours, or do you just accept what the "thought leaders" tell you? After certain people have called Republicans in the US "Nazis" for the past 8 years based on nothing, I'm so done with people who pull out that word for anyone they disagree with. Pony up some proof or buzz off.
        karmakurtisaani 2y ago
        Look up paradox of tolerance. > So like the left, correct? Incorrect. Regarding Nazis in Ukraine, I'm not sure how it relates to this. Certainly worrying if true. However their country was invaded over a decade ago and is in active war, so not sure how to compare with Germany at all. First result when googling doesn't paint a nice picture: https://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/dangerous-liaisons-the-true-proximity-of-germany-s-afd-to-neo-nazis-a-e69c51d3-4b3c-49d2-8d54-d7b0a19c3f9a https://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/dangerous-liais...
        wakawaka28 2y ago
        I know about the paradox of tolerance. It cuts both ways. You can't have free speech when you have some people banning anything they don't like on some pretense of "intolerance." You can't dismiss this as "we will just make exceptions" because the left is demanding censorship of just about anyone that doesn't agree. "Cancel Culture," while legal, is fundamentally against the concept of free speech. It is true that religious conservatives once upon a time orchestrated censorship and public shaming of people they disagreed with. But the recent instances of political persecution put anything the right did in our lifetimes to shame. The closest would be the way suspected communists were treated during the Red Scare, and that actually had at least a plausible justification. I honestly don't know that much about AfD (nobody but you has even tried to answer my request for proof that they are the new Nazi party, despite downvotes, which I find is suggestive of it all being a fabrication). I can tell you that conservative populists are taking heat in most of the West. It's like there's a conspiracy to work against the will of the people orchestrated by an international coalition of powerful people. I would take anything that any Western media outfit says with a grain of salt. They have been whining about populist conservative wins just about everywhere (for example, the US, Germany, Italy, Romania, Argentina...), and trying to paint all conservatives as racists and fascists. In closing, I would like to say beware of fascists who claim to want to protect you from fascists, or claim to have the moral high ground. We can't have democracy without free speech and autonomy over ourselves in general, and we can't have free speech without people being free to offend each other and say even horrible things. Almost any rule you can think of to regulate mere words can be contorted into something that can silence anyone not in a position to enforce the rules. I mean that literally. How long before demanding lower taxes is deemed hate speech and violence against those who don't pay? I know it sounds insane but politics since 2016 (and I would say, much earlier) has shown us that quite a few powerful people are willing to enforce arbitrary ludicrous limitations on (or retaliation for) free speech like that.

wakawaka28 2y ago

My bad, it indeed seems to not be the oldest. But it is certainly not brand new or unpopular. Can you give me evidence that they are Nazis? I don't mean finding a few Nazis that happen to be members, I mean proof that their platform is the Nazi program. As I'm sure you are aware, the Nazi party is banned in Germany and even displaying Nazi symbology can get you in trouble there.

karmakurtisaani 2y ago
> I don't mean finding a few Nazis that happen to be members Ah the few local Nazis that just happened to stumble upon the membership, while the rest of them were just fine with it. Reminds me of the good old "you're not marching with Nazis, you are a Nazi".
- wakawaka28 2y ago
  It was a serious question. You are free to answer it. I'm going to assume you're full of it if you don't answer it.
  - karmakurtisaani 2y ago
    The serious answer is this: Nazis strive to replace democratic government with a fascist dictatorship. They wish to get rid of people they deem as their enemies. Anyone who tolerates people with ideology like this cannot be viewed as anything but the same as them. So, if your party has a few Nazis, it's all Nazis.
    - wakawaka28 2y ago
      >The serious answer is this: Nazis strive to replace democratic government with a fascist dictatorship. So how is it democracy to ban this party and harass its members again? Should Germans be concerned about other parties adopting fascist tactics to control who they can vote for? >They wish to get rid of people they deem as their enemies. So like the left, correct? >So, if your party has a few Nazis, it's all Nazis. Nobody has presented me with proof that any Nazis are in AfD, and that there are no Nazis in other parties. I don't know if AfD is open like US political parties, where one can just claim to be a member. But unless someone is at least widely known to be an open Nazi, and the party registered them as a member with full knowledge of that (or at least refused to revoke membership of a known Nazi), it's all slander. What is your take on the leadership of Ukraine having literal bonafide Nazis in it? Are they a concern of yours, or do you just accept what the "thought leaders" tell you? After certain people have called Republicans in the US "Nazis" for the past 8 years based on nothing, I'm so done with people who pull out that word for anyone they disagree with. Pony up some proof or buzz off.
      - karmakurtisaani 2y ago
        Look up paradox of tolerance. > So like the left, correct? Incorrect. Regarding Nazis in Ukraine, I'm not sure how it relates to this. Certainly worrying if true. However their country was invaded over a decade ago and is in active war, so not sure how to compare with Germany at all. First result when googling doesn't paint a nice picture: https://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/dangerous-liaisons-the-true-proximity-of-germany-s-afd-to-neo-nazis-a-e69c51d3-4b3c-49d2-8d54-d7b0a19c3f9a https://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/dangerous-liais...
        wakawaka28 2y ago
        I know about the paradox of tolerance. It cuts both ways. You can't have free speech when you have some people banning anything they don't like on some pretense of "intolerance." You can't dismiss this as "we will just make exceptions" because the left is demanding censorship of just about anyone that doesn't agree. "Cancel Culture," while legal, is fundamentally against the concept of free speech. It is true that religious conservatives once upon a time orchestrated censorship and public shaming of people they disagreed with. But the recent instances of political persecution put anything the right did in our lifetimes to shame. The closest would be the way suspected communists were treated during the Red Scare, and that actually had at least a plausible justification. I honestly don't know that much about AfD (nobody but you has even tried to answer my request for proof that they are the new Nazi party, despite downvotes, which I find is suggestive of it all being a fabrication). I can tell you that conservative populists are taking heat in most of the West. It's like there's a conspiracy to work against the will of the people orchestrated by an international coalition of powerful people. I would take anything that any Western media outfit says with a grain of salt. They have been whining about populist conservative wins just about everywhere (for example, the US, Germany, Italy, Romania, Argentina...), and trying to paint all conservatives as racists and fascists. In closing, I would like to say beware of fascists who claim to want to protect you from fascists, or claim to have the moral high ground. We can't have democracy without free speech and autonomy over ourselves in general, and we can't have free speech without people being free to offend each other and say even horrible things. Almost any rule you can think of to regulate mere words can be contorted into something that can silence anyone not in a position to enforce the rules. I mean that literally. How long before demanding lower taxes is deemed hate speech and violence against those who don't pay? I know it sounds insane but politics since 2016 (and I would say, much earlier) has shown us that quite a few powerful people are willing to enforce arbitrary ludicrous limitations on (or retaliation for) free speech like that.