5 ms·

I also take magnesium for sleep. I swear by it. I also believe I have an underlying kidney disorder that was causing all sorts of subtle problems and after res

by Nemi 2y ago

I also take magnesium for sleep. I swear by it. I also believe I have an underlying kidney disorder that was causing all sorts of subtle problems and after researching for years decided to try potassium supplements and it relieved the acute symptoms I was having (daytime sleepiness after meals) and also a whole slew of symptoms I didn’t realize I was having (poor workout performance and recovery, constant thirst from sodium/potassium imbalance, heart palpitations, especially at night when lying in bed, temperature regulation when trying to sleep, restless legs at night, and sleep quality). Sleep was the most surprising. I used to wake at around 3am and just couldn’t get back to sleep. I still wake up to pee, but I get right back to sleep. The single most surprising thing is the quality of my sleep. I now sleep like a rock. So unbelievably hard. And when I wake I feel so rested and more clear headed. I don’t need to sleep as many hours anymore and feel better than when i would sleep 9 hours. Recently several sleep studies started talking about how sleep is not a passive activity, but a ‘washing’ of CSF over your brain. I could get some details wrong since I am going off of memory, but I believe the amount of CSF movement and production basically triples when you sleep. I hypothesize that this is simply your bodies way of cleaning the waste products out of your brain. Do you know what precursors are to create CSF? Electrolytes like sodium, potassium, chloride, and bicarbonate. It is my hypothesis that I was ‘using up’ all the potassium available with the first couple of sleep cycles and once it was gone I was unable to effectively create more CSF, rendering my sleep ineffective. All I need to take is a couple of 99mg tablets right before bed (along with some magnesium chloride) and I sleep like I did when I was 10. I am 57. To say it has transformed my life would be an understatement.

867-5309 2y ago
Cerebrospinal Fluid
_yb2s 2y ago
Thanks for sharing- I find that these type of anecdotes often do work for other people, and are not information people can get from a doctor. I’m going to try what you suggest myself- I also tend to wake up at night and not fall back asleep, with no obvious explanation.
mmorse1217 2y ago
I have every single one of your symptoms and arrived at almost the same conclusion: taking electrolytes tablets intended for workout recovery (just sodium, magnesium and potassium, no sugar) improves alleviates almost all of my symptoms and gives me energy I haven't had since I was 12. I haven't been able to get a doctor to take me seriously for ten years. I will try the potassium + magnesium tablets at night instead of a generic multivitamin. Thank you so much for your comment. Do you have any additional information about this relationship between CSF and electrolyte deficiency? Do you know anything about possible upstream causes of electrolyte deficiency? Any pointers would be super helpful.
- Nemi 2y ago
  I also started with general “electrolytes” but found that one of my problems was that I was getting way too much sodium and not enough potassium. This was the primary driver of my post-meal somnolence. Most general electrolyte supplements are primarily sodium, and this was exacerbating my symptoms in some cases. I now only eat meals that have a reasonable amount of sodium and then take a couple of potassium tablets a couple of hours after eating if I feel myself starting to get a little sleepy. 30 minutes later I am ‘back to normal’, whereas I used to be sleepy for several hours as my body tried to bring my electrolytes back into balance. I also would have massive unquenchable thirst during this that I now don’t have. I have read no studies that link CSF production with electrolyte deficiencies. This is a hypothesis of my own with no backing, so take it for what it is worth. Having said that, there have been many posts on HN on the recent studies on CSF https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39723704 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39723704. I made the connection with CSF production and electrolytes when I was reading more about CSF production and it jumped off the page at me that potassium and other electrolytes are used to create CSF. It all just came together for me why taking potassium has helped me so much.
  - mlloyd 2y ago
    >I also would have massive unquenchable thirst during this that I now don’t have. Have you been checked for diabetes? The thirst is one of the bigger symptoms.
mancerayder 2y ago
Which formulation of magnesium? And how long (days/weeks) of supplementation before you noticed a difference? Does it 'wear off' once you stop?
- joe_guy 2y ago
  Not OP but I've had luck with zinc and magnesium aspartate supplements commonly available on Amazon. I take two caps that each are a net about 500mg an hour before bed, along with 1mg of melatonin. Been doing this for a lot of years now.
  - hgomersall 2y ago
    You need to be a bit careful with zinc. A doctor friend of mine compiled a load of data showing most zinc supplements are contaminated with cadmium, which is cumulative. I'm not sure if he's published yet. Edit, here's a paper by some other researchers: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/09637480120057602 https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/0963748012005760...
    - joe_guy 2y ago
      Thank you for this information. I'll either switch to a better brand or go straight magnesium.
    - _yb2s 2y ago
      Thanks! It is also critical to balance zinc with copper, and supplementing a lot of zinc without copper can effectively cause copper deficiency, which is very serious.
    - krackers 2y ago
      Fyi in the consumerlabs review for zinc, all products passed testing for cadmium levels with the highest (Nature's Bounty) having 0.5mcg/g. You basically need to be careful with any supplement since it's unregulated, and need to do a lot of careful diligence. It's a good sign if they are honest about their supplier and you trace back their supply chain. E.g. for many chelated supplements (zinc included), if you see a TRAACS trademark then the source is Balchem (Albion) which to my understanding is fairly well regarded. ConsumerLabs tested one such TRAACS product and found it to be 0.1 mcg/g cadmium, so likely most products using TRAACS zinc bisglycinate formulation should be similar. I also found some EU food safety application [1] which confirms that across 3 different manufacturers of zinc bisglycinate (one of which is Albion), all samples were < 0.1mcg/g [1] https://efsa.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.2903/j.efsa.2008.718 https://efsa.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.2903/j.efsa....
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
WuxiFingerHold 2y ago
Damn, thanks for your insights. I recently discovered how much better I sleep when fasting. During my fasts I'm taking precise amounts of electrolytes (sodium, magnesium, potassium: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oral_rehydration_therapy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oral_rehydration_therapy). Being off my fasts I'm getting sloppy with my electrolytes intake and here we are: I'm getting the same symptoms you describe. Not severely, but noticeably. Now I need to find a proper supplement in Germany. Most electrolytes that also have the recommended amounts of glucose contain artificial sweetener which is a big no-go for daily usage for me.
pbowyer 2y ago
I have a subset of these symptoms. How much potassium do you take?
- Nemi 2y ago
  I take anywhere from 600mg to 1000mg throughout the day. It depends on my diet and other things. Never all at once.

by Nemi 2y ago

867-5309 2y ago

Cerebrospinal Fluid

_yb2s 2y ago

Thanks for sharing- I find that these type of anecdotes often do work for other people, and are not information people can get from a doctor. I’m going to try what you suggest myself- I also tend to wake up at night and not fall back asleep, with no obvious explanation.

mmorse1217 2y ago

I have every single one of your symptoms and arrived at almost the same conclusion: taking electrolytes tablets intended for workout recovery (just sodium, magnesium and potassium, no sugar) improves alleviates almost all of my symptoms and gives me energy I haven't had since I was 12. I haven't been able to get a doctor to take me seriously for ten years. I will try the potassium + magnesium tablets at night instead of a generic multivitamin. Thank you so much for your comment. Do you have any additional information about this relationship between CSF and electrolyte deficiency? Do you know anything about possible upstream causes of electrolyte deficiency? Any pointers would be super helpful.

Nemi 2y ago
I also started with general “electrolytes” but found that one of my problems was that I was getting way too much sodium and not enough potassium. This was the primary driver of my post-meal somnolence. Most general electrolyte supplements are primarily sodium, and this was exacerbating my symptoms in some cases. I now only eat meals that have a reasonable amount of sodium and then take a couple of potassium tablets a couple of hours after eating if I feel myself starting to get a little sleepy. 30 minutes later I am ‘back to normal’, whereas I used to be sleepy for several hours as my body tried to bring my electrolytes back into balance. I also would have massive unquenchable thirst during this that I now don’t have. I have read no studies that link CSF production with electrolyte deficiencies. This is a hypothesis of my own with no backing, so take it for what it is worth. Having said that, there have been many posts on HN on the recent studies on CSF https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39723704 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39723704. I made the connection with CSF production and electrolytes when I was reading more about CSF production and it jumped off the page at me that potassium and other electrolytes are used to create CSF. It all just came together for me why taking potassium has helped me so much.
- mlloyd 2y ago
  >I also would have massive unquenchable thirst during this that I now don’t have. Have you been checked for diabetes? The thirst is one of the bigger symptoms.

mancerayder 2y ago

Which formulation of magnesium? And how long (days/weeks) of supplementation before you noticed a difference? Does it 'wear off' once you stop?

joe_guy 2y ago
Not OP but I've had luck with zinc and magnesium aspartate supplements commonly available on Amazon. I take two caps that each are a net about 500mg an hour before bed, along with 1mg of melatonin. Been doing this for a lot of years now.
- hgomersall 2y ago
  You need to be a bit careful with zinc. A doctor friend of mine compiled a load of data showing most zinc supplements are contaminated with cadmium, which is cumulative. I'm not sure if he's published yet. Edit, here's a paper by some other researchers: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/09637480120057602 https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/0963748012005760...
  - joe_guy 2y ago
    Thank you for this information. I'll either switch to a better brand or go straight magnesium.
  - _yb2s 2y ago
    Thanks! It is also critical to balance zinc with copper, and supplementing a lot of zinc without copper can effectively cause copper deficiency, which is very serious.
  - krackers 2y ago
    Fyi in the consumerlabs review for zinc, all products passed testing for cadmium levels with the highest (Nature's Bounty) having 0.5mcg/g. You basically need to be careful with any supplement since it's unregulated, and need to do a lot of careful diligence. It's a good sign if they are honest about their supplier and you trace back their supply chain. E.g. for many chelated supplements (zinc included), if you see a TRAACS trademark then the source is Balchem (Albion) which to my understanding is fairly well regarded. ConsumerLabs tested one such TRAACS product and found it to be 0.1 mcg/g cadmium, so likely most products using TRAACS zinc bisglycinate formulation should be similar. I also found some EU food safety application [1] which confirms that across 3 different manufacturers of zinc bisglycinate (one of which is Albion), all samples were < 0.1mcg/g [1] https://efsa.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.2903/j.efsa.2008.718 https://efsa.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.2903/j.efsa....

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

WuxiFingerHold 2y ago

Damn, thanks for your insights. I recently discovered how much better I sleep when fasting. During my fasts I'm taking precise amounts of electrolytes (sodium, magnesium, potassium: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oral_rehydration_therapy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oral_rehydration_therapy). Being off my fasts I'm getting sloppy with my electrolytes intake and here we are: I'm getting the same symptoms you describe. Not severely, but noticeably. Now I need to find a proper supplement in Germany. Most electrolytes that also have the recommended amounts of glucose contain artificial sweetener which is a big no-go for daily usage for me.

pbowyer 2y ago

I have a subset of these symptoms. How much potassium do you take?

Nemi 2y ago
I take anywhere from 600mg to 1000mg throughout the day. It depends on my diet and other things. Never all at once.