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> Outside the boat, Sarah, Hissora and the others who had jumped off eventually found the two life rafts, which had deployed after the sinking. As they clambere
by brian-armstrong 2y ago
> Outside the boat, Sarah, Hissora and the others who had jumped off eventually found the two life rafts, which had deployed after the sinking. As they clambered on board, they saw the boat's captain and a number of other crew members were already there.
> "There should be some supplies in here," Sarah remembers one of the other guests saying. All the people we spoke to recall a safety briefing mentioning that the life rafts had food and water in them - but they did not, the BBC were told.
> "We found a torch, but again it didn't have any batteries. We didn't have any water or any food," Sarah says. "There were flares, but they had already been used."
> Sarah also says of the three blankets on board the raft, one had been taken by the captain for himself, leaving one for the rest of the crew and another for the guests. "We ripped it up and huddled together," says Sarah.
Absolutely disgraceful behavior from the captain here. This is not a person who should be entrusted with a houseplant, let alone the wellbeing of any number of people on board that vessel.
- jajko 2y agoIf you've ever been to that country, or any similar country, you would notice that real professional competence across whole society is scarce, and most tourism industry is just barely faking it in terms of security and professionalism. Or to put it in different words - don't do extreme sports there, safety net is very thin. Deadly diving accidents are common there too, mostly due to lack of professionalism of instructors, either locals or for some reason russians.
- curiousgal 2y agoGeneralize much? How many duck boat sinkings took the lives of tourists in the US? Were you also so keen to criticise American society as a whole and "similar countries"?
- inglor_cz 2y agoNot the OP, but his generalization about North Africa is spot on. It is one of the few regions that regressed civilizationally since Antiquity. Zero advanced exports, lots of tyranny and dysfunction, natives vote with their feet by the millions, and no one in their sane mind moves there. I don't particularly care about praising the US, a country I have never been to, but if you are trying to put some sort equivalence between Egypt and the US, you are deluding yourself. Quality of institutions in those two places ise mostly incomparable. (The SF homeless situation may be an exception. Yeah, that could be North Africa, only with much more money burned on futile schemes to alleviate the problem.)
- selimthegrim 2y agoMorocco and Tunisia don’t seem terrible. But you’re also neglecting the effect of climate change since antiquity on agriculture there.
- inglor_cz 2y agoAfter 1948, the ancient communities of Greeks, Jews and Armenians were driven out of Alexandria by the new Arab nationalist government. Given that these were the most educated and globally connected people in the country, Egypt shot itself in the foot in a way that is probably impossible to evaluate.
- selimthegrim 2y agoIn violent agreement- unfortunately, they were identified with the British occupation/administration. See also: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Ireland_Craig https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Ireland_Craig
- shellfishgene 2y agoThere are of course professional and competent people in Egypt, and I've worked with many. However, there is very stiff competition in the tourism sector, education in workers is low, regulations that exist are mostly only used to elicit bribes by officials, so all corners that can be cut, are.
- nmstoker 2y agoBased on this list, it was 34 fatalities from three duck boat sinkings: https://www.arnolditkin.com/blog/injury/dangerous-waters-a-summary-of-duck-boat-accident/ https://www.arnolditkin.com/blog/injury/dangerous-waters-a-s... There were other fatalities but in different circumstances, mainly on land. A quick Google turns up over a thirteen hundred dead in sinking incidents off Egypt in the last 20 years. Looks like Libya can't be far behind. They're in a completely different league and whilst generalisations can seen unpalatable it does seem tied to a careless approach to safety (as confirmed by all the mentions of safety equipment failure in the various incidents)
- fwipsy 2y agoTangent: this article contains the claim regarding DUKWs on D-Day: "Only one boat made it to the beach—the rest sank, taking soldiers and supplies with them." From what I can find this seems to be highly inaccurate and while there were some sinkings, DUKW boats at D-Day seem to be generally considered to be successful. This error is egregious enough to call the author's overall trustworthiness into question for me.
- StefanBatory 2y agoGeneralization sucks but you can't say it's not true. I'm from Eastern Europe and I'll say that in many aspects Western society is better than us, even if it's already way better than after the fall of the Soviet occupation. It sucks but it is what it is.
- quotz 2y agoBetter in what way? And Eastern Europe can range from Czech Republic, to the Balkans, to even include the Caucasus, and of course Russia. I'd wager half of Eastern Europe has better society than majority of the US excluding parts of the East Coast and the West coast.
- YZF 2y agoI have dived in the red sea dozens of times over decades. There are many solid dive operations. It's probably at least a notch or two above the rest of (edit: Egyptian) society since it's a bit of a bubble that works mostly with foreigners. Still not up to western standards but also not as bad as you make it sound. It's one of the world's most popular diving destinations and incident rates aren't that high. There are many good instructors but you do have to be more careful. These days there are a lot of Russians due to the war with Ukraine I imagine some of them have found work in the dive industry. The last time I visited was 2 years ago and there were certainly a lot of Russians but I didn't dive with them. EDIT: I generally dislike Egypt, everyone smokes, an oppressive government. Third world. I'm not sure I'll go diving there again. But my experience with boat diving has been good, that's the only part of Egypt I like ;) I've had dives in Hawaii that felt less safe with instructors chasing people that bolt to the surface and other near misses and generally questionably run operations. I think the key in these third world countries is to chose specific operators.
- shellfishgene 2y agoIt seems not much has changed after the Red Sea Agressor dive boat burned down in 2020 killing one guest.
- inglor_cz 2y agoSadly, absolutely nothing and no one in Egypt can be trusted. It is even worse that the former Soviet Bloc where I grew up, and where you always had to divide your expectations of competence, functionality, compliance etc. by, say, three. (Nowadays, two.) This story is still better than it could be - I would expect the life rafts to be completely unmaintained and to sink immediately. Perhaps they were sturdy enough to survive years of neglect. You can expect that the investigation will be an exercise in bureaucratic hush-up, too. If losing face is worse than death, death is the preferred outcome. Especially if it is someone else's death. The Red Sea is beautiful, but caveat emptor. Ironically, Saudi Arabia may outcompete Egypt soon when it comes to seaside tourism. Saudis are a lot more competent when it comes to providing Western levels of service, and the current prince is ditching Islamic limitations real fast.
- shellfishgene 2y agoSaudis are a lot more competent when it comes to providing Western levels of service, and the current prince is ditching Islamic limitations real fast. Only because they mostly don't do the work themselves ;)
- inglor_cz 2y agoTrue, a lot is done by foreigners; but even organizing someone else to provide reliable service to you is a nontrivial competence. Plenty of rich places work like that. Already ancient Athens had their metoics.
- madaxe_again 2y agoIn Egypt, when you are in a position of power - for instance, captain, CEO, president - you aren’t actually responsible for anything. It’s more of a sinecure, where you are there to be honoured and pampered by your underlings. This seems to be a universal law there - any time I’ve done business there’s been some lavish lunch with the CEO while he talks about his horses, and then negotiations with Farid from accounts. So… the captain in this case is just abiding by Egyptian customs. He is, in his and his crew’s estimation, the most important person on the boat, and is to be protected at all costs.
- ty6853 2y agoIt's quite interesting as other Islamic countries I've been to will guard guests with their life and will basically starve themselves to make sure you eat. Protection of guests is a pillar of the culture and religion in most the Middle East. If you are anywhere east of Egypt and you knock on a door you can pretty much bet that unless you're arrested or killed immediately you are absolutely safe.
- steveBK123 2y agoPretty big caveat on that last sentence..
- ty6853 2y agoSure, but nice to find out quickly at least :) To be fair I was arrested immediately once in Kurdish Iraq... They just took me to go to wait at a hotel on my own honor and took my passport. After my friend and I were interrogated they decided we were good people and told me I could go anywhere I liked and gave me a police card if I needed help to make sure that happened, lmao.
- YZF 2y agoI don't think the divers on a dive boat are considered guests of the captain. So yes the custom exists but it's very nuanced.
- 2y ago