6 ms·

Perhaps we should only pay for development of open-source software, so we actually own what we're paying for.

jiggy2011 14y ago
Or at the very least , a promise from the developers that the product will become open source if one of a number of conditions are met.
- antihero 14y ago
  As a British person who voted Lib Dem, I'd need a lot more than a "promise" to quell my worries.
  - jiggy2011 14y ago
    If it was part of the license agreement? I don't know how enforceable this would be in practice though. Perhaps a neutral third party gets code access and a contract with the developer and users as to when/if it will be released?
    - streptomycin 14y ago
      It can just be a simple contract, like this http://www.kde.org/community/whatiskde/kdefreeqtfoundation.php http://www.kde.org/community/whatiskde/kdefreeqtfoundation.p...
    - ehamberg 14y ago
      Perhaps something à la the KDE Free Qt Foundation? (http://www.kde.org/community/whatiskde/kdefreeqtfoundation.php http://www.kde.org/community/whatiskde/kdefreeqtfoundation.p...) The agreement between the Free Qt Foundation and Nokia gives them right to release the latest Qt version under a BSD-style licence if Nokia stop releasing Qt versions (GPL+LGPL).
fallenhitokiri 14y ago
I don't use Sparrow so please correct me if I am wrong. The applications are still fully functional and are working perfectly fine until Apple changes anything they heavily depend on or something replaces imap. You own your copy of Sparrow and it still works. Imagine you buy a BMW and in 10 years you cannot get the required fuel anymore. Does this mean you only pay for a new car when you get all plans for the engine and the whole construction or do you just buy another car? (I know that the comparison doesn't work 100%)
- abruzzi 14y ago
  One worry is since iOS is so dependent/tied to the app store for updates or reinstalls, if the developer pulls the app from the store, you can never redownload it, and you are then stuck trying to maintain a copy that you backed up and hoping you don't lose the file. And if you don't plug in to a PC you wont be able to reinstall the app. This happened to me with smule and "Magic Fiddle".
- jiggy2011 14y ago
  I think the broader point that doesn't analogise so well with cars is network effects and compatibility. Even cars from the 1950s are compatible with modern roads, also they can have a lead additive put into the fuel, or the owner can convert the car to run on unleaded petrol. If your program is old and closed source (in this context , old cars are basically open source since they can be repaired by anyone with relatively standard knowledge and tools). I never used Sparrow, but I'll assume that at least they worked with standard email protocols like IMAP and POP3 making a switch to another mail client feasible. Imagine instead that they had used some proprietary (and possible patented) web service API. Then their users would really be in trouble, and this is a sort of model many startups seem to be going for.
- mmcdan 14y ago
  For something as critical as email, "fine until Apple changes anything" is not good enough, given that Apple has a habit of changing things.
  - 14y ago
mbq 14y ago
Agree; in fact every single proprietary software or technology I have ever paid for was abandoned or turned into a pile of junk.
technoslut 14y ago
I don't believe that changes the situation at all. An example of this is Quicksilver on the Mac. It's considered to be one of the best Mac apps ever and the developer who made it, decided to open source it after he decided to take a job at Google. Quicksilver development fell apart afterwards. My point is that people who used the app did so because of the talent of the developer. A community can't always make up for that hole.
- cpeterso 14y ago
  Another example was VisualHub, a Mac front-end for ffmpeg video conversion. The author, Techspansion, EOL'd it in 2008 and released a "code dump" as open source. Someone tried to pick up the pieces and form an open-source version called FilmRedux, but it was last updated in 2009. Techspansion, however, was a good citizen and when a Mac OS X Lion broke VisualHub, he released a patched binary, so I'm still able to use VisualHub four years after it was EOL'd! :) http://www.isquint.org/ http://www.isquint.org/
- andybak 14y ago
  Actually - Quicksilver development is alive and well. And I still use it in preference to Alfred et al.
- luriel 14y ago
  > An example of this is Quicksilver on the Mac. It's considered to be one of the best Mac apps ever and the developer who made it, decided to open source it after he decided to take a job at Google. Quicksilver development fell apart afterwards. I don't use a Mac, and don't even know what Quicksilver was until I checked, but this was posted 17 hours ago: http://blog.qsapp.com/post/27644282840/ss69-release-quicksilver-1-0-draws-nearer http://blog.qsapp.com/post/27644282840/ss69-release-quicksil... Maybe development didn't follow at the same pace as before, but to say it "fell apart" when they are very close to releasing 1.0 seems not very accurate to this outside observer.
  - technoslut 14y ago
    Much of what is left of Quicksilver today is about fixing bugs and keeping it on life support which is why I used the term "fell apart" instead of "dead". This was an app that the developer stopped programming for in 2006 and the bug fixing didn't really start until last year. Th plug-ins to other apps are part of what made Quicksilver great and most still don't work and haven't been updated since that time.
toddmorey 14y ago
This makes me wonder if you could open source a project like this and still sell it through the App Store. Then there would be a paid version (that's easy to acquire and pay for) as well as the code being shared with the community. Anyone could still get the app for free, but I'd be willing to bet most people would financially support the project if given such an easy and integrated means to do so.
- joshstrange 14y ago
  You can, I am on my phone right now so i can't give specifc examples, but there are apps I paid for through the OS X App Store that are open-source. It was easier to get it through the app store and I got to support the developers. I prefer this model because anyone can contribute back to the collective whole and abandonware is less of a problem.
- reddit_clone 14y ago
  Isnt GPL banned on iOS AppStore?
  - stcredzero 14y ago
    There are other licenses.

jiggy2011 14y ago

Or at the very least , a promise from the developers that the product will become open source if one of a number of conditions are met.

antihero 14y ago
As a British person who voted Lib Dem, I'd need a lot more than a "promise" to quell my worries.
- jiggy2011 14y ago
  If it was part of the license agreement? I don't know how enforceable this would be in practice though. Perhaps a neutral third party gets code access and a contract with the developer and users as to when/if it will be released?
  - streptomycin 14y ago
    It can just be a simple contract, like this http://www.kde.org/community/whatiskde/kdefreeqtfoundation.php http://www.kde.org/community/whatiskde/kdefreeqtfoundation.p...
  - ehamberg 14y ago
    Perhaps something à la the KDE Free Qt Foundation? (http://www.kde.org/community/whatiskde/kdefreeqtfoundation.php http://www.kde.org/community/whatiskde/kdefreeqtfoundation.p...) The agreement between the Free Qt Foundation and Nokia gives them right to release the latest Qt version under a BSD-style licence if Nokia stop releasing Qt versions (GPL+LGPL).

fallenhitokiri 14y ago

I don't use Sparrow so please correct me if I am wrong. The applications are still fully functional and are working perfectly fine until Apple changes anything they heavily depend on or something replaces imap. You own your copy of Sparrow and it still works. Imagine you buy a BMW and in 10 years you cannot get the required fuel anymore. Does this mean you only pay for a new car when you get all plans for the engine and the whole construction or do you just buy another car? (I know that the comparison doesn't work 100%)

abruzzi 14y ago
One worry is since iOS is so dependent/tied to the app store for updates or reinstalls, if the developer pulls the app from the store, you can never redownload it, and you are then stuck trying to maintain a copy that you backed up and hoping you don't lose the file. And if you don't plug in to a PC you wont be able to reinstall the app. This happened to me with smule and "Magic Fiddle".
jiggy2011 14y ago
I think the broader point that doesn't analogise so well with cars is network effects and compatibility. Even cars from the 1950s are compatible with modern roads, also they can have a lead additive put into the fuel, or the owner can convert the car to run on unleaded petrol. If your program is old and closed source (in this context , old cars are basically open source since they can be repaired by anyone with relatively standard knowledge and tools). I never used Sparrow, but I'll assume that at least they worked with standard email protocols like IMAP and POP3 making a switch to another mail client feasible. Imagine instead that they had used some proprietary (and possible patented) web service API. Then their users would really be in trouble, and this is a sort of model many startups seem to be going for.
mmcdan 14y ago
For something as critical as email, "fine until Apple changes anything" is not good enough, given that Apple has a habit of changing things.
- 14y ago

mbq 14y ago

Agree; in fact every single proprietary software or technology I have ever paid for was abandoned or turned into a pile of junk.

technoslut 14y ago

I don't believe that changes the situation at all. An example of this is Quicksilver on the Mac. It's considered to be one of the best Mac apps ever and the developer who made it, decided to open source it after he decided to take a job at Google. Quicksilver development fell apart afterwards. My point is that people who used the app did so because of the talent of the developer. A community can't always make up for that hole.

cpeterso 14y ago
Another example was VisualHub, a Mac front-end for ffmpeg video conversion. The author, Techspansion, EOL'd it in 2008 and released a "code dump" as open source. Someone tried to pick up the pieces and form an open-source version called FilmRedux, but it was last updated in 2009. Techspansion, however, was a good citizen and when a Mac OS X Lion broke VisualHub, he released a patched binary, so I'm still able to use VisualHub four years after it was EOL'd! :) http://www.isquint.org/ http://www.isquint.org/
andybak 14y ago
Actually - Quicksilver development is alive and well. And I still use it in preference to Alfred et al.
luriel 14y ago
> An example of this is Quicksilver on the Mac. It's considered to be one of the best Mac apps ever and the developer who made it, decided to open source it after he decided to take a job at Google. Quicksilver development fell apart afterwards. I don't use a Mac, and don't even know what Quicksilver was until I checked, but this was posted 17 hours ago: http://blog.qsapp.com/post/27644282840/ss69-release-quicksilver-1-0-draws-nearer http://blog.qsapp.com/post/27644282840/ss69-release-quicksil... Maybe development didn't follow at the same pace as before, but to say it "fell apart" when they are very close to releasing 1.0 seems not very accurate to this outside observer.
- technoslut 14y ago
  Much of what is left of Quicksilver today is about fixing bugs and keeping it on life support which is why I used the term "fell apart" instead of "dead". This was an app that the developer stopped programming for in 2006 and the bug fixing didn't really start until last year. Th plug-ins to other apps are part of what made Quicksilver great and most still don't work and haven't been updated since that time.

toddmorey 14y ago

This makes me wonder if you could open source a project like this and still sell it through the App Store. Then there would be a paid version (that's easy to acquire and pay for) as well as the code being shared with the community. Anyone could still get the app for free, but I'd be willing to bet most people would financially support the project if given such an easy and integrated means to do so.

joshstrange 14y ago
You can, I am on my phone right now so i can't give specifc examples, but there are apps I paid for through the OS X App Store that are open-source. It was easier to get it through the app store and I got to support the developers. I prefer this model because anyone can contribute back to the collective whole and abandonware is less of a problem.
reddit_clone 14y ago
Isnt GPL banned on iOS AppStore?
- stcredzero 14y ago
  There are other licenses.