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> TikTok being banned is censorship, and presents a significant delta towards more censorship I don't see it that way. I'm not American and I've never used Tik

> TikTok being banned is censorship, and presents a significant delta towards more censorship I don't see it that way. I'm not American and I've never used TikTok. I don't see any censorship here. This is more of an ongoing power struggle between the US and China, tit for tat after they banned American apps. Censorship would mean that they're banning actual content. That's not what's happening here. Any of the short form videos from TikTok can be hosted on several other video platforms, if the creators care to upload it. Banning a platform is not censorship. It's like banning a book publishing house but allowing any other publisher to continue publishing their books. It does appear that there is actual censorship, in the form of book banning, happening in several US states recently. But this ain't that.

starfezzy 2y ago
> Any of the short form videos from TikTok can be hosted on several other video platforms, if the creators care to upload it. Sure, you can repost TikTok content anywhere, but what people really notice when they recognize that tiktok's algorithm is unique—without realizing it—is that it's apolitical by default, and not-western when politics come into play. It actually shows you what you're interested in, instead of force-feeding western progressive/consumerist messaging and banning half its users for wrongthink. So yeah, post the same content on Reels/Shorts if you want, but if it doesn't align with the western narrative, good luck with the shadowbans and downranking.
- esperent 2y ago
  Algorithmic content, and how that can be used to shape a chosen narrative, is an important issue. However, it's much more closely related to propaganda rather than censorship.
  - starfezzy 2y ago
    Of course, yes. The west is committed to their own propaganda narrative, which explains the tiktok ban and the "inability" (unwillingness, really) to replicate the algorithm. I'm not saying china is perfect. They do their own propaganda and narrative control. The west trying quite successfully to replicate THAT algorithm—authoritarianism and narrative control, corporations acting as arms of the state propaganda agencies, etc.
- Andrex 2y ago
  The algorithm's advantage could disappear in an instant. It is not a real moat, and if TikTok weren't banned I definitely think we'd see that play out in the next 2 years.
  - fakedang 2y ago
    LoL, the algorithm is the only reason TikTok was able to dethrone both Meta and Alphabet in short form content (also Snap but who gives a damn about that loser). TikTok even put their algorithm workings out there in the internet, as part of public presentations, yet Google and Facebook being unable to replicate something that's anywhere close to performant compared to TikTok is evidence of the moat ByteDance has.
    - Andrex 2y ago
      Algorithms can and have been copied and improved. It is human nature. For years people would wax about Spotify's algorithm never being dethroned, but the anecdotes I'm seeing lately are that YouTube Music's algorithm is now far ahead of the pack. If the algorithm is all TikTok had, they'd lose long term. See also Snapchat and Instagram Stories.
      - starfezzy 2y ago
        > Algorithms can and have been copied and improved. Tiktok's algorithm can't be copied in the West. What makes it "so good" isn't some technical secret—it's that it starts apolitical and remains politically non-committal. If you're not into politics, it won't push political content at you. If you are, it won't suppress conservative views or force-feed you western progressive narratives. If you change your political interests it won't continue to nudge you towards western progressivism or Conservatism™ or some mainstream "safe" brand of political discourse. Western corporations won't replicate this because they're committed to embedding specific messaging in everything at all times to astroturf and force national culture shifts. This understanding is sufficient to explain the motive behind the Tiktok ban as well as why no extremely well funded and highly motivated, intelligent corporations in the west can repeat tiktok's algorithm success.
_factor 2y ago
I’m shutting down the film festival and reserve the right to shut down all future film festivals with this precedent. I’m not censoring you, of course. You’re free to assemble in the local Hollywood studio. Sounds a lot like censorship lite before the full fledged version ships.
- pixl97 2y ago
  All film festivals from China, you're free to have them (almost) anywhere else.

starfezzy 2y ago

> Any of the short form videos from TikTok can be hosted on several other video platforms, if the creators care to upload it. Sure, you can repost TikTok content anywhere, but what people really notice when they recognize that tiktok's algorithm is unique—without realizing it—is that it's apolitical by default, and not-western when politics come into play. It actually shows you what you're interested in, instead of force-feeding western progressive/consumerist messaging and banning half its users for wrongthink. So yeah, post the same content on Reels/Shorts if you want, but if it doesn't align with the western narrative, good luck with the shadowbans and downranking.

esperent 2y ago
Algorithmic content, and how that can be used to shape a chosen narrative, is an important issue. However, it's much more closely related to propaganda rather than censorship.
- starfezzy 2y ago
  Of course, yes. The west is committed to their own propaganda narrative, which explains the tiktok ban and the "inability" (unwillingness, really) to replicate the algorithm. I'm not saying china is perfect. They do their own propaganda and narrative control. The west trying quite successfully to replicate THAT algorithm—authoritarianism and narrative control, corporations acting as arms of the state propaganda agencies, etc.
Andrex 2y ago
The algorithm's advantage could disappear in an instant. It is not a real moat, and if TikTok weren't banned I definitely think we'd see that play out in the next 2 years.
- fakedang 2y ago
  LoL, the algorithm is the only reason TikTok was able to dethrone both Meta and Alphabet in short form content (also Snap but who gives a damn about that loser). TikTok even put their algorithm workings out there in the internet, as part of public presentations, yet Google and Facebook being unable to replicate something that's anywhere close to performant compared to TikTok is evidence of the moat ByteDance has.
  - Andrex 2y ago
    Algorithms can and have been copied and improved. It is human nature. For years people would wax about Spotify's algorithm never being dethroned, but the anecdotes I'm seeing lately are that YouTube Music's algorithm is now far ahead of the pack. If the algorithm is all TikTok had, they'd lose long term. See also Snapchat and Instagram Stories.
    - starfezzy 2y ago
      > Algorithms can and have been copied and improved. Tiktok's algorithm can't be copied in the West. What makes it "so good" isn't some technical secret—it's that it starts apolitical and remains politically non-committal. If you're not into politics, it won't push political content at you. If you are, it won't suppress conservative views or force-feed you western progressive narratives. If you change your political interests it won't continue to nudge you towards western progressivism or Conservatism™ or some mainstream "safe" brand of political discourse. Western corporations won't replicate this because they're committed to embedding specific messaging in everything at all times to astroturf and force national culture shifts. This understanding is sufficient to explain the motive behind the Tiktok ban as well as why no extremely well funded and highly motivated, intelligent corporations in the west can repeat tiktok's algorithm success.

_factor 2y ago

I’m shutting down the film festival and reserve the right to shut down all future film festivals with this precedent. I’m not censoring you, of course. You’re free to assemble in the local Hollywood studio. Sounds a lot like censorship lite before the full fledged version ships.

pixl97 2y ago
All film festivals from China, you're free to have them (almost) anywhere else.