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> Telling them to not do something usually makes them angry unfortunately Then it's up to you to get even angrier.

by maeil 2y ago

saagarjha 2y ago
Angry people are spiteful. I generally find it a lot more productive to get them to understand why their choices have consequences, how the can (progressively!) fix the problems, and watch things improve from there.
- maeil 2y ago
  Environmentalists and those championing similar causes politically have taken this approach for decades. The result has been a perpetual shift to the right-wing who has no qualms about playing dirty, using fear, anger and other tribal emotions to gain support. Everywhere in the West, authoritarians are seizing power. Good luck with continuing the virtuous approach while the world goes up in flames. It hasn't worked and has gotten us to where we are right now.
  - saagarjha 2y ago
    I think people should be angry about that, yes. I’m not particularly interested in tying eating meat to racism or whatever it takes to make people fearful enough to support you.
    - maeil 2y ago
      And this is why everything will keep going up in flames - you're not interested in doing what it has been shown to take to get people to support your cause. Unfortunately it doesn't matter what we think people should be angry about. FWIW I obviously completely agree with you! People should be angry about those things! Turns out they aren't. What matters is the reality we live in.
      - johnthewise 2y ago
        I'd say accusing people of random stuff(racism,sexism and other isms) have been so overplayed in recent years, not only it doesn't work anymore, it works against you.
        maeil 2y ago
        In the US, what Trump is doing is working. In the EU, what the authoritarian far-right parties are doing is working. Their tactics have been working incredibly well for them, use them, the inane pacifist take of "being above that" by environmentalists and progressives in general is what has caused them to be completely irrelevant and the rise of authoritarianism across the West.
        saagarjha 2y ago
        I mean Hitler clearly did something right in getting elected. I'm not sure we want to emulate his policies, though.

> Telling them to not do something usually makes them angry unfortunately Then it's up to you to get even angrier.

by maeil 2y ago

> Telling them to not do something usually makes them angry unfortunately Then it's up to you to get even angrier.

Angry people are spiteful. I generally find it a lot more productive to get them to understand why their choices have consequences, how the can (progressively!) fix the problems, and watch things improve from there.

maeil 2y ago
Environmentalists and those championing similar causes politically have taken this approach for decades. The result has been a perpetual shift to the right-wing who has no qualms about playing dirty, using fear, anger and other tribal emotions to gain support. Everywhere in the West, authoritarians are seizing power. Good luck with continuing the virtuous approach while the world goes up in flames. It hasn't worked and has gotten us to where we are right now.
- saagarjha 2y ago
  I think people should be angry about that, yes. I’m not particularly interested in tying eating meat to racism or whatever it takes to make people fearful enough to support you.
  - maeil 2y ago
    And this is why everything will keep going up in flames - you're not interested in doing what it has been shown to take to get people to support your cause. Unfortunately it doesn't matter what we think people should be angry about. FWIW I obviously completely agree with you! People should be angry about those things! Turns out they aren't. What matters is the reality we live in.
    - johnthewise 2y ago
      I'd say accusing people of random stuff(racism,sexism and other isms) have been so overplayed in recent years, not only it doesn't work anymore, it works against you.
      - maeil 2y ago
        In the US, what Trump is doing is working. In the EU, what the authoritarian far-right parties are doing is working. Their tactics have been working incredibly well for them, use them, the inane pacifist take of "being above that" by environmentalists and progressives in general is what has caused them to be completely irrelevant and the rise of authoritarianism across the West.
        saagarjha 2y ago
        I mean Hitler clearly did something right in getting elected. I'm not sure we want to emulate his policies, though.