7 ms·

This is hilarious. Mojang is on not subject of US laws, US software patents can not be enforced either. So Mojng can totally ignore that case.

by atirip 14y ago

rwmj 14y ago
Dangerous ... A default judgement could prevent them from selling Minecraft in the US, and could implicate other companies helping them who are based in the US (ie. Google & Appple because their stores are presumably located there).
- ricardobeat 14y ago
  How do you prevent sales in the US if it's only sold online? They can't order blocking using geolocation since the company is in Sweden... now I'm curious.
  - rwmj 14y ago
    [I'm not saying any of this is right, just pointing out how it's done] (1) You go after the companies collecting the money (Visa etc) and delivering the app (Google, Apple). These very much have physical offices and principals in the US. (2) You arrest people who dare to fly through/over/near the US. See: legal UK gambling companies. (3) You attempt to extradite anyone not caught by (1) or (2), if necessary pushing for one-sided extradition and IP laws to do so.
    - jahewson 14y ago
      In response... 1) Yes, also I guess they could order ISPs to block the website, but I don't know if there is any precedent for this. 2) No, patent infringement is not a crime 3) No, patent infringement is not a fellony (or crime). If there was a Default Judgement against them then violating it may be a contempt of court, which may be a crime - anyone know if that's the case? Edit: Wikipedia says "Contempt of court in a civil suit is generally not considered to be a criminal offense".
    - atirip 14y ago
      I don't know US law, but is this http://www.quizlaw.com/patents/what_are_the_penalties_for_pat.php http://www.quizlaw.com/patents/what_are_the_penalties_for_pa... correct? You see, if there's only monetary penalties and company is sued then no individal is in danger of any sort. I mean (2) and (3) often came around in such discussions, so I have to ask: is anybody ever arrested in US and thrown in jail when that somebody's company potentially owns money to somebody. Because at least in Europe I'm not aware of cases even when some individual owns money to somebody and he can be arested - the only method of extracting money out of somebody is seizing the assets. Realistically (1) is the only thing you can do as patent owner. All you can do is try to prevent sales in US. But still, Swedish company can not break any US law.
      - rprasad 14y ago
        The U.S. specifically forbids debtor's prison. You cannot be thrown in jail simply for owing money to someone. European countries copied this right from the U.S. when they got around to modernizing their legal systems.
        bragh 14y ago
        Not American, but can't you be jailed for contempt of court? http://finance.yahoo.com/news/jailed-for--280--the-return-of-debtors--prisons.html http://finance.yahoo.com/news/jailed-for--280--the-return-of... http://farquharlaw.wordpress.com/2012/04/26/debtors-prison-end-run-in-california-and-elsewhere-beware-contempt-of-court-and-the-debtors-exam/ http://farquharlaw.wordpress.com/2012/04/26/debtors-prison-e...
        rprasad 14y ago
        Not paying a judgement against you is not contempt of court. In the Yahoo Article, the woman arrested failed to show up to multiple court hearings, despite receive notice at the proper address. The fact that the court hearings related to a debt was incidental. Blame shoddy journalism. The second one, is a blog post, which actually talks about something entirely different from a debtor's prison. It refers to a "debtor's exam", which is a fancy way of saying that your finances are examined to see if you can afford to pay the debt. No prison time involved. Intrusive maybe, but warranted if you haven't paid the debt at issue.
  - rbanffy 14y ago
    > How do you prevent sales in the US if it's only sold online? Just preventing sales from customers in the US app store would be a lot of damage. Google and Apple already have different products available according to country of origin. Billing addresses can also be easily checked.
- huhtenberg 14y ago
  > selling Minecraft in the US This I don't understand. Mojang sells Minecraft in Sweden. You come to them, not the other way around (unless they have a US-based webshop). A person from the US can fly to Sweden and buy a bottle of Absolute Absinthe (made-up) and then bring it back to the US. She may not succeed getting it through the customs, but it will be the US customs who enforce the import restriction, not the Swedish liquor store. Similarly, Mojang is a liquor store, Minecraft is a bottle. Why should Mojang be enforcing US e-com restrictions? This doesn't make any sense.
  - ktizo 14y ago
    They are legally obliged to for any sales to the US territories. So if you are in the US and buy Minecraft, then they are exporting software to the US and have to comply with relevant law and any trade agreements between Sweden and the US.
    - eps 14y ago
      "legally obliged" as per which country's law? Also, depending on how one views it, it's not them exporting, but rather their customers importing bought software.
      - ktizo 14y ago
        It is always both, not one perspective or the other. You can't export something without it being imported to somewhere.
    - mdc 14y ago
      Right. huhtenberg's analogy was flawed. His analogy to selling liquor only works if you remote-access a computer in Sweden and then buy Minecraft from that computer. Then when you copy Minecraft from the remote to your home system, you're the importer. If you buy from a US-based computer then it's Mojang acting as an importer to the US. The liquor analogy would be if you ordered a bottle of liquor to be shipped to the US and the liquor store would be expected to comply with US import rules.
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
astrodust 14y ago
Wrong. If Mojang sells products or services into the US market, which they do, then they are subject to those laws. The presence of "Minecraft" on the US XBox Live store is just one example.

This is hilarious. Mojang is on not subject of US laws, US software patents can not be enforced either. So Mojng can totally ignore that case.

by atirip 14y ago

This is hilarious. Mojang is on not subject of US laws, US software patents can not be enforced either. So Mojng can totally ignore that case.

rwmj 14y ago

Dangerous ... A default judgement could prevent them from selling Minecraft in the US, and could implicate other companies helping them who are based in the US (ie. Google & Appple because their stores are presumably located there).

ricardobeat 14y ago
How do you prevent sales in the US if it's only sold online? They can't order blocking using geolocation since the company is in Sweden... now I'm curious.
- rwmj 14y ago
  [I'm not saying any of this is right, just pointing out how it's done] (1) You go after the companies collecting the money (Visa etc) and delivering the app (Google, Apple). These very much have physical offices and principals in the US. (2) You arrest people who dare to fly through/over/near the US. See: legal UK gambling companies. (3) You attempt to extradite anyone not caught by (1) or (2), if necessary pushing for one-sided extradition and IP laws to do so.
  - jahewson 14y ago
    In response... 1) Yes, also I guess they could order ISPs to block the website, but I don't know if there is any precedent for this. 2) No, patent infringement is not a crime 3) No, patent infringement is not a fellony (or crime). If there was a Default Judgement against them then violating it may be a contempt of court, which may be a crime - anyone know if that's the case? Edit: Wikipedia says "Contempt of court in a civil suit is generally not considered to be a criminal offense".
  - atirip 14y ago
    I don't know US law, but is this http://www.quizlaw.com/patents/what_are_the_penalties_for_pat.php http://www.quizlaw.com/patents/what_are_the_penalties_for_pa... correct? You see, if there's only monetary penalties and company is sued then no individal is in danger of any sort. I mean (2) and (3) often came around in such discussions, so I have to ask: is anybody ever arrested in US and thrown in jail when that somebody's company potentially owns money to somebody. Because at least in Europe I'm not aware of cases even when some individual owns money to somebody and he can be arested - the only method of extracting money out of somebody is seizing the assets. Realistically (1) is the only thing you can do as patent owner. All you can do is try to prevent sales in US. But still, Swedish company can not break any US law.
    - rprasad 14y ago
      The U.S. specifically forbids debtor's prison. You cannot be thrown in jail simply for owing money to someone. European countries copied this right from the U.S. when they got around to modernizing their legal systems.
      - bragh 14y ago
        Not American, but can't you be jailed for contempt of court? http://finance.yahoo.com/news/jailed-for--280--the-return-of-debtors--prisons.html http://finance.yahoo.com/news/jailed-for--280--the-return-of... http://farquharlaw.wordpress.com/2012/04/26/debtors-prison-end-run-in-california-and-elsewhere-beware-contempt-of-court-and-the-debtors-exam/ http://farquharlaw.wordpress.com/2012/04/26/debtors-prison-e...
        rprasad 14y ago
        Not paying a judgement against you is not contempt of court. In the Yahoo Article, the woman arrested failed to show up to multiple court hearings, despite receive notice at the proper address. The fact that the court hearings related to a debt was incidental. Blame shoddy journalism. The second one, is a blog post, which actually talks about something entirely different from a debtor's prison. It refers to a "debtor's exam", which is a fancy way of saying that your finances are examined to see if you can afford to pay the debt. No prison time involved. Intrusive maybe, but warranted if you haven't paid the debt at issue.
- rbanffy 14y ago
  > How do you prevent sales in the US if it's only sold online? Just preventing sales from customers in the US app store would be a lot of damage. Google and Apple already have different products available according to country of origin. Billing addresses can also be easily checked.
huhtenberg 14y ago
> selling Minecraft in the US This I don't understand. Mojang sells Minecraft in Sweden. You come to them, not the other way around (unless they have a US-based webshop). A person from the US can fly to Sweden and buy a bottle of Absolute Absinthe (made-up) and then bring it back to the US. She may not succeed getting it through the customs, but it will be the US customs who enforce the import restriction, not the Swedish liquor store. Similarly, Mojang is a liquor store, Minecraft is a bottle. Why should Mojang be enforcing US e-com restrictions? This doesn't make any sense.
- ktizo 14y ago
  They are legally obliged to for any sales to the US territories. So if you are in the US and buy Minecraft, then they are exporting software to the US and have to comply with relevant law and any trade agreements between Sweden and the US.
  - eps 14y ago
    "legally obliged" as per which country's law? Also, depending on how one views it, it's not them exporting, but rather their customers importing bought software.
    - ktizo 14y ago
      It is always both, not one perspective or the other. You can't export something without it being imported to somewhere.
  - mdc 14y ago
    Right. huhtenberg's analogy was flawed. His analogy to selling liquor only works if you remote-access a computer in Sweden and then buy Minecraft from that computer. Then when you copy Minecraft from the remote to your home system, you're the importer. If you buy from a US-based computer then it's Mojang acting as an importer to the US. The liquor analogy would be if you ordered a bottle of liquor to be shipped to the US and the liquor store would be expected to comply with US import rules.

deleted 14y ago

[deleted]

astrodust 14y ago

Wrong. If Mojang sells products or services into the US market, which they do, then they are subject to those laws. The presence of "Minecraft" on the US XBox Live store is just one example.