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I have a question about this. Can you be sued from Texas if you sell your software in any state _but_ Texas? So if I add a clause to my EULA that the product ca

by tinco 14y ago

I have a question about this. Can you be sued from Texas if you sell your software in any state _but_ Texas? So if I add a clause to my EULA that the product can not be bought or used in the state of Texas, would that force patent trolls to sue in a different state? edit: This wiki.answers page seems to say that could work http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Can_someone_sue_another_person_if_they_do_not_live_in_the_same_state http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Can_someone_sue_another_person_if_...

jahewson 14y ago
You might also be expected to take some measures to enforce this, such as a State drop-down box, with an "I agree" EULA/ToS.
- rprasad 14y ago
  You are referring to a "choice of forum" clause (which is distinct from a "choice of jurisdiction clause"). Choice of forum determines where any disputes are held. Choice of jurisdiction determines what state's laws apply (if the dispute involves a matter of state law).
  - jahewson 14y ago
    I don't think so, I was suggesting that a company could simply not do business with anyone in an undesirable location (e.g. Texas), and have that as part of the EULA, but with some proactive form of enforcement such as a drop-down, much like those "enter your birthday" age-checks, as passively adding it to the EULA text might not be good enough.
    - rprasad 14y ago
      That doesn't work. Putting it in the EULA is not enough. You would actuallly have to reject customers with Texas addresses.
      - jahewson 14y ago
        Quite possibly, but it gets worse: judging from Natsu's comment about patent suits being federal, and the trolls being based in Texas, it looks like it's almost impossible to avoid being sued in Texas, whether or not you do any business there, as long as you do business somewhere in the US.
        dedward 14y ago
        I'll defer to experts on the patent issue, but in principle, if you are quick to take measures to avoid doing business with people in states that cause you trouble as soon as they bring it up, it will very likely give you much better chances in court, and much more favor with whoever is deciding your fate, especially if it's international.
        jahewson 14y ago
        Patents are federal law, not state law, which is the basic point here. It seems very dangerous to think that you can dodge federal law by avoiding doing business in a specific state, and I should think that the jury would be instructed as such. An attempt to state-dodge might even be seen as indicative of an awareness of wrongdoing.
Natsu 14y ago
Patent lawsuits are filed in federal court. There are jurisdiction rules, and even recent attempts to curtail the practice of forum shopping, but now that many patent trolls make their home in Marshall, Texas, it's rather difficult to avoid that forum. They will more or less say that due to the fact that the troll has set up shop in Texas, any other jurisdiction is as good as here, so you're stuck with Texas. In short, the trolls do everything they can to make you fight them in their home court. Enough so that it makes the news whenever people find a new legal trick to escape. Many such tricks have failed. One example that springs to mind is that one troll who filed a day earlier than anyone else would be able to, because they used tricky local rules to get a cover sheet while technically filing just after midnight. But because they were first, they got to choose to stay in Marshall, TX.

by tinco 14y ago

jahewson 14y ago

You might also be expected to take some measures to enforce this, such as a State drop-down box, with an "I agree" EULA/ToS.

rprasad 14y ago
You are referring to a "choice of forum" clause (which is distinct from a "choice of jurisdiction clause"). Choice of forum determines where any disputes are held. Choice of jurisdiction determines what state's laws apply (if the dispute involves a matter of state law).
- jahewson 14y ago
  I don't think so, I was suggesting that a company could simply not do business with anyone in an undesirable location (e.g. Texas), and have that as part of the EULA, but with some proactive form of enforcement such as a drop-down, much like those "enter your birthday" age-checks, as passively adding it to the EULA text might not be good enough.
  - rprasad 14y ago
    That doesn't work. Putting it in the EULA is not enough. You would actuallly have to reject customers with Texas addresses.
    - jahewson 14y ago
      Quite possibly, but it gets worse: judging from Natsu's comment about patent suits being federal, and the trolls being based in Texas, it looks like it's almost impossible to avoid being sued in Texas, whether or not you do any business there, as long as you do business somewhere in the US.
      - dedward 14y ago
        I'll defer to experts on the patent issue, but in principle, if you are quick to take measures to avoid doing business with people in states that cause you trouble as soon as they bring it up, it will very likely give you much better chances in court, and much more favor with whoever is deciding your fate, especially if it's international.
        jahewson 14y ago
        Patents are federal law, not state law, which is the basic point here. It seems very dangerous to think that you can dodge federal law by avoiding doing business in a specific state, and I should think that the jury would be instructed as such. An attempt to state-dodge might even be seen as indicative of an awareness of wrongdoing.

Natsu 14y ago

Patent lawsuits are filed in federal court. There are jurisdiction rules, and even recent attempts to curtail the practice of forum shopping, but now that many patent trolls make their home in Marshall, Texas, it's rather difficult to avoid that forum. They will more or less say that due to the fact that the troll has set up shop in Texas, any other jurisdiction is as good as here, so you're stuck with Texas. In short, the trolls do everything they can to make you fight them in their home court. Enough so that it makes the news whenever people find a new legal trick to escape. Many such tricks have failed. One example that springs to mind is that one troll who filed a day earlier than anyone else would be able to, because they used tricky local rules to get a cover sheet while technically filing just after midnight. But because they were first, they got to choose to stay in Marshall, TX.