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Are you serious? What company doesn’t categorize labor and expenses, especially for capitalization and R&D purposes. There’s zero chance Apple doesn’t know. It’

Are you serious? What company doesn’t categorize labor and expenses, especially for capitalization and R&D purposes. There’s zero chance Apple doesn’t know. It’s 100% nonsense. They know all the labor costs and revenue for each of their products. Every single one. Zero chance Apple doesn’t categorize server allocation and assign those to budgets. Small companies do it. So, the obvious answer is they’re lying. They’ve done it before, too. They’re doing it now.

stouset 2y ago
The GP claims to be qualified as an accountant and gives a simple example of how this type of problem can have no clear answer. Your rebuttal is simply “of course they know the answer”. Is there any reason someone reading this thread should prefer your take over theirs?
- headhuntermdk 2y ago
  Let's look at a few things that we know about Apple: 1. The first $1 trillion, $3 trillion and (soon to be) $4 trillion company. 2. Cancels or stops production of products that don't make money (VisionPro being the latest). 3. Spent over half a trillion dollars in stock buybacks. No company gets to the height Apple is currently without knowing every dollar coming in and going out. I'm reminded of "if it don't make dollars, it don't make sense" chorus from DJ Quik's "Dollaz + Sense". When I apply that to Apple (let alone any successful company for that matter), the claim that they don't know if the AppStore is profitable or not *defies belief*. Schiller might not know exactly how much profit is generated, but to suggest that he's clueless whether or not on the WHOLE if the AppStore is profitable... If people believe that, I got a bunch of bridges up for sale.
  - andrewmcwatters 2y ago
    Exactly. Considering how Schiller and other Apple executives straight up regularly lie to the engineering public, there's not a whole lot of mystery here. Yeah, like Schiller isn't ever told about revenue and expenses at Apple. Please. What a joke.
    - RhysU 2y ago
      Exactly. If they can't calculate it how do they know they're not losing money? If they know they're not losing money how do they know that?
      - mcphage 2y ago
        > If they can't calculate it how do they know they're not losing money? If they were losing money, what would they do? They probably can't raise their rates, since people are already very unhappy with their current rates, so it would be a hard sell given how much the company as a whole makes. They can't close the App Store, since it would flush their entire iPhone line down the toilet. Could they lower costs? Probably—cut back on reviewers, get rid of the promotional pages they create. I dunno.
- andrewmcwatters 2y ago
  Well, I claim to be a dog on the Internet, so there’s that. But seriously, this ignores too many simple truths. Companies with even under $100 million in revenue categorize labor and other general expenses. Even full-time employees who don’t log their hours have them tracked by entry-level management all over the U.S. Why would one do this? To capitalize on software costs, apart from even hardware costs. Something Apple does regularly, and they have a history of sharing that information with shareholders. So, the GP is talking out of his rear end. The obvious reason Apple doesn't want to share their margins is because every closed software ecosystem is absolutely screwing their developers. That’s why. There isn’t a single company I’ve worked for in nearly 20 years that doesn’t assign department and project costs to employees, contractors, and ancillary workers. Each department and project also has its own materials expenditure reports. All of them. Even the smallest companies do this. It’s such a naive claim to think otherwise. I have no idea why people here think the “integrated” argument holds up at Apple, either. Staff there absolutely have "App Store and related work" assigned to their employee profiles. Without a doubt. Even their hiring roles don’t hire general software engineers; each role is preassigned to a specific department or project.
  - headhuntermdk 2y ago
    They wouldn't be a very good dragon if they couldn't account for each gold piece they were hoarding
- isthatafact 2y ago
  Apple directly reported sales of "services" in the last reported quarter to be 24972M and cost of those sales to be 6485M. https://investor.apple.com/investor-relations/default.aspx https://investor.apple.com/investor-relations/default.aspx I am no expert, but that seems like a 74% margin on services, which would seem to include their "app store". It is difficult for me to imagine that apple is somehow incapable of breaking those numbers down into smaller component categories.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]

stouset 2y ago

The GP claims to be qualified as an accountant and gives a simple example of how this type of problem can have no clear answer. Your rebuttal is simply “of course they know the answer”. Is there any reason someone reading this thread should prefer your take over theirs?

headhuntermdk 2y ago
Let's look at a few things that we know about Apple: 1. The first $1 trillion, $3 trillion and (soon to be) $4 trillion company. 2. Cancels or stops production of products that don't make money (VisionPro being the latest). 3. Spent over half a trillion dollars in stock buybacks. No company gets to the height Apple is currently without knowing every dollar coming in and going out. I'm reminded of "if it don't make dollars, it don't make sense" chorus from DJ Quik's "Dollaz + Sense". When I apply that to Apple (let alone any successful company for that matter), the claim that they don't know if the AppStore is profitable or not *defies belief*. Schiller might not know exactly how much profit is generated, but to suggest that he's clueless whether or not on the WHOLE if the AppStore is profitable... If people believe that, I got a bunch of bridges up for sale.
- andrewmcwatters 2y ago
  Exactly. Considering how Schiller and other Apple executives straight up regularly lie to the engineering public, there's not a whole lot of mystery here. Yeah, like Schiller isn't ever told about revenue and expenses at Apple. Please. What a joke.
  - RhysU 2y ago
    Exactly. If they can't calculate it how do they know they're not losing money? If they know they're not losing money how do they know that?
    - mcphage 2y ago
      > If they can't calculate it how do they know they're not losing money? If they were losing money, what would they do? They probably can't raise their rates, since people are already very unhappy with their current rates, so it would be a hard sell given how much the company as a whole makes. They can't close the App Store, since it would flush their entire iPhone line down the toilet. Could they lower costs? Probably—cut back on reviewers, get rid of the promotional pages they create. I dunno.
andrewmcwatters 2y ago
Well, I claim to be a dog on the Internet, so there’s that. But seriously, this ignores too many simple truths. Companies with even under $100 million in revenue categorize labor and other general expenses. Even full-time employees who don’t log their hours have them tracked by entry-level management all over the U.S. Why would one do this? To capitalize on software costs, apart from even hardware costs. Something Apple does regularly, and they have a history of sharing that information with shareholders. So, the GP is talking out of his rear end. The obvious reason Apple doesn't want to share their margins is because every closed software ecosystem is absolutely screwing their developers. That’s why. There isn’t a single company I’ve worked for in nearly 20 years that doesn’t assign department and project costs to employees, contractors, and ancillary workers. Each department and project also has its own materials expenditure reports. All of them. Even the smallest companies do this. It’s such a naive claim to think otherwise. I have no idea why people here think the “integrated” argument holds up at Apple, either. Staff there absolutely have "App Store and related work" assigned to their employee profiles. Without a doubt. Even their hiring roles don’t hire general software engineers; each role is preassigned to a specific department or project.
- headhuntermdk 2y ago
  They wouldn't be a very good dragon if they couldn't account for each gold piece they were hoarding
isthatafact 2y ago
Apple directly reported sales of "services" in the last reported quarter to be 24972M and cost of those sales to be 6485M. https://investor.apple.com/investor-relations/default.aspx https://investor.apple.com/investor-relations/default.aspx I am no expert, but that seems like a 74% margin on services, which would seem to include their "app store". It is difficult for me to imagine that apple is somehow incapable of breaking those numbers down into smaller component categories.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]