5 ms·

In most of these discussions, people on the sales side claim, "but our customers WANT this! Trust us!" and most of the people on the buying side scream, "We hat

In most of these discussions, people on the sales side claim, "but our customers WANT this! Trust us!" and most of the people on the buying side scream, "We hate this. Please let us buy it without this song and dance." It's a shocking disconnect to me. (For what it's worth, I'm squarely on the fouder/engineering buying side and hate the call song and dance, and only engage in it as a last resort.) Parting thought: SpaceX tells you how much it costs to ship something INTO SPACE. I bet you can figure out a way to tell me your SaaS price, in ballpark terms, and what it depends upon...

FateOfNations 2y ago
> SpaceX tells you how much it costs to ship something INTO SPACE. https://www.spacex.com/rideshare/ https://www.spacex.com/rideshare/
- TeMPOraL 2y ago
  Not just that, they also plain tell you how much it costs to buy an entire rocket launch for yourself. https://www.spacex.com/media/Capabilities&Services.pdf https://www.spacex.com/media/Capabilities&Services.pdf To save a click, that PDF at this moment says clearly: STANDARD PAYMENT PLAN [for Falcon 9] (through 2024) $69.75 M Up to 5.5 mT TO GTO If they can put a specific base price on their website, so can any SaaS.
  - andyferris 2y ago
    What's an mT? Millitonne?
    - TeMPOraL 2y ago
      Metric ton, I believe.
  - portaouflop 2y ago
    You can put the 7 figure price on your webpage but I assure you that no one will pay it without taking to you in person…
    - jaggederest 2y ago
      I've watched 7 figure deals go through self-service onboarding before, zero touch. I think the sales team eventually reached out, but they were using the product before they ever had a sales call. They certainly will pay it without talking to you in person. There's an asterisk here though, which is that you have to be essentially the best player in your field and really well known. I assure you that 7 figure deals happen every day on AWS, for example, without human intervention. Not all of them happen that way, but enough that it's not surprising.
    - TeMPOraL 2y ago
      That's fine. People don't necessarily want to do one-click purchase on 7 figure prices, they just want to know the order of magnitude, so they can determine whether to make that call in the first place. Not publishing reference prices is a strong indicator the company is basically running a scam.
bigstrat2003 2y ago
I love that SpaceX does that, because it proves once and for all that the sales tactic of "we need to know the details of your use case" is a lie. Some B2B software application is less complicated than launching things into space, so if SpaceX can provide pricing anyone can. They simply choose not to because they're hoping to waste your time and get you to succumb to the sunk cost fallacy.
- adastra22 2y ago
  It's worth noting that prior to SpaceX every single rocket was hand crafted, and often varied in key details based on the payload. Certain when it came to (people-intensive) integration tests and launch prep work. There's partly a legitimate reason ULA needed customer details before providing a quote. But mostly it was so they could charge NRO more for their birds, by not having a price on their website.
doctorpangloss 2y ago
The disconnect has such a simple explanation that it's brutal how long this conversation is: nobody wants to make stuff for cheap people, and people who hate calls are really cheap.
- the-grump 2y ago
  Show me the high price on a web page so I can go "that's too much for this stingy old grump" rather than making me talk to one of your sales minions.
  - portaouflop 2y ago
    Assume the price is too high for you if you have to talk to sales and go some where else, simple as that?
    - the-grump 2y ago
      Were you born to annoy people? I don’t call and it’s not for the reason you suggest, but because I won’t talk to an automaton once then endure multiple calls and emails trying to sell me their offering. I’ve been down that road enough times and sales people usually go to spam. For your information, the hidden price is often times in line with the market. They hide it so they can do market segmentation without changing the product and to gather information about potential customers. So thank you for your most useful recommendation which changes nothing for me. I follow it for reasons other than your ill-informed assumptions.
      - titanomachy 2y ago
        Wow, you ARE grumpy! As advertised
        the-grump 2y ago
        You have no idea ;D I’m real fun at parties
nerdponx 2y ago
> I bet you can figure out a way to tell me your SaaS price, in ballpark terms, and what it depends upon... They can't if the price is arbitrary and subject to negotiation, like a car at a dealership. Not saying that happens everywhere or even most places, but it's one explanation.
- TheTaytay 2y ago
  This is true! And frankly, it's the most likely explanation. Even then, I'd appreciate a "starting/maximum" price (which is what car dealerships and home listings do). "This is the price, unless you want to spend the time trying to negotiate it down..." If the pricing is made up of a number of complicated usage components, it would be great to give both a ballpark for a given description of usage, and a brief explanation as to what goes into the price. I think sellers either forget how much more information they have than the buyer, or know, and try to take advantage of it. One of the best conference talks I ever saw was from a pool contractor explaining that it is indeed hard to answer the question, "How much does a pool cost?" because it can vary SO MUCH. But he found that explaining the components of pricing, along with examples and ballparks, was more than sufficient, and that his business took off as a result of publishing that information, rather than hiding it behind a sales call. (Looked it up - this is not the exact talk I saw, but it was this guy: https://blog.hubspot.com/opinion/uattr/marcus-sheridan-hubspot-inbound-conference-2013-bold-talk https://blog.hubspot.com/opinion/uattr/marcus-sheridan-hubsp...)

FateOfNations 2y ago

> SpaceX tells you how much it costs to ship something INTO SPACE. https://www.spacex.com/rideshare/ https://www.spacex.com/rideshare/

TeMPOraL 2y ago
Not just that, they also plain tell you how much it costs to buy an entire rocket launch for yourself. https://www.spacex.com/media/Capabilities&Services.pdf https://www.spacex.com/media/Capabilities&Services.pdf To save a click, that PDF at this moment says clearly: STANDARD PAYMENT PLAN [for Falcon 9] (through 2024) $69.75 M Up to 5.5 mT TO GTO If they can put a specific base price on their website, so can any SaaS.
- andyferris 2y ago
  What's an mT? Millitonne?
  - TeMPOraL 2y ago
    Metric ton, I believe.
- portaouflop 2y ago
  You can put the 7 figure price on your webpage but I assure you that no one will pay it without taking to you in person…
  - jaggederest 2y ago
    I've watched 7 figure deals go through self-service onboarding before, zero touch. I think the sales team eventually reached out, but they were using the product before they ever had a sales call. They certainly will pay it without talking to you in person. There's an asterisk here though, which is that you have to be essentially the best player in your field and really well known. I assure you that 7 figure deals happen every day on AWS, for example, without human intervention. Not all of them happen that way, but enough that it's not surprising.
  - TeMPOraL 2y ago
    That's fine. People don't necessarily want to do one-click purchase on 7 figure prices, they just want to know the order of magnitude, so they can determine whether to make that call in the first place. Not publishing reference prices is a strong indicator the company is basically running a scam.

bigstrat2003 2y ago

I love that SpaceX does that, because it proves once and for all that the sales tactic of "we need to know the details of your use case" is a lie. Some B2B software application is less complicated than launching things into space, so if SpaceX can provide pricing anyone can. They simply choose not to because they're hoping to waste your time and get you to succumb to the sunk cost fallacy.

adastra22 2y ago
It's worth noting that prior to SpaceX every single rocket was hand crafted, and often varied in key details based on the payload. Certain when it came to (people-intensive) integration tests and launch prep work. There's partly a legitimate reason ULA needed customer details before providing a quote. But mostly it was so they could charge NRO more for their birds, by not having a price on their website.

doctorpangloss 2y ago

The disconnect has such a simple explanation that it's brutal how long this conversation is: nobody wants to make stuff for cheap people, and people who hate calls are really cheap.

the-grump 2y ago
Show me the high price on a web page so I can go "that's too much for this stingy old grump" rather than making me talk to one of your sales minions.
- portaouflop 2y ago
  Assume the price is too high for you if you have to talk to sales and go some where else, simple as that?
  - the-grump 2y ago
    Were you born to annoy people? I don’t call and it’s not for the reason you suggest, but because I won’t talk to an automaton once then endure multiple calls and emails trying to sell me their offering. I’ve been down that road enough times and sales people usually go to spam. For your information, the hidden price is often times in line with the market. They hide it so they can do market segmentation without changing the product and to gather information about potential customers. So thank you for your most useful recommendation which changes nothing for me. I follow it for reasons other than your ill-informed assumptions.
    - titanomachy 2y ago
      Wow, you ARE grumpy! As advertised
      - the-grump 2y ago
        You have no idea ;D I’m real fun at parties

nerdponx 2y ago

> I bet you can figure out a way to tell me your SaaS price, in ballpark terms, and what it depends upon... They can't if the price is arbitrary and subject to negotiation, like a car at a dealership. Not saying that happens everywhere or even most places, but it's one explanation.

TheTaytay 2y ago
This is true! And frankly, it's the most likely explanation. Even then, I'd appreciate a "starting/maximum" price (which is what car dealerships and home listings do). "This is the price, unless you want to spend the time trying to negotiate it down..." If the pricing is made up of a number of complicated usage components, it would be great to give both a ballpark for a given description of usage, and a brief explanation as to what goes into the price. I think sellers either forget how much more information they have than the buyer, or know, and try to take advantage of it. One of the best conference talks I ever saw was from a pool contractor explaining that it is indeed hard to answer the question, "How much does a pool cost?" because it can vary SO MUCH. But he found that explaining the components of pricing, along with examples and ballparks, was more than sufficient, and that his business took off as a result of publishing that information, rather than hiding it behind a sales call. (Looked it up - this is not the exact talk I saw, but it was this guy: https://blog.hubspot.com/opinion/uattr/marcus-sheridan-hubspot-inbound-conference-2013-bold-talk https://blog.hubspot.com/opinion/uattr/marcus-sheridan-hubsp...)