6 ms·

Having recently ridden Amtrak, easily the worst thing about it is the fact that they've decided to go with an airline style boarding process where the platforms

Having recently ridden Amtrak, easily the worst thing about it is the fact that they've decided to go with an airline style boarding process where the platforms are treated as a secure area and everybody has to single-file get their ticket checked to get onto a platform. The whole advantage of a train vs a plane is that a train has many doors, allowing a lot of simultaneous boarding to happen; and they also already have conductors who check your ticket to make sure you are getting into the correct car, and another ticket check once the train is in motion. It would be significantly better at major stations to just have conductors at every train car on the platform in parallel doing ticket checks, rather than just have one funnel.

jjice 2y ago
I haven't been on an Amtrak in about six months, so it may have changed, but where were you boarding? Was it New York? Boarding in NY is slow and structured, but when I've boarded in Back Bay (Boston), Portland (Maine), and Providence, it's the better way that you've mentioned. They make everyone rescan tickets for the North East regional in NY also, if you're just passing through. It's a bit annoying, but I wonder if the traffic getting on and off is too great in NY to be able to do that. I have no clue, though.
- Ericson2314 2y ago
  Yes their practice elsewhere is better. Amtrak seems to think that lazzaiz-faire platform ingress/egress doesn't scale to NY Penn, but that's exactly backwards — it's not letting people circulate freely which doesn't scale. Also, fun fact, if you don't go in the main hall Amtrak waiting area at NY Penn, you can board the platform whenever you want. But it's hard to figure out what platform/track to go to in advance — hiding that information is how they discourage this.
  - craftkiller 2y ago
    laissez-faire
    - Ericson2314 2y ago
      :) Evidently I previously convinced Android to add my misspelling to the dictionary. Yikes!
  - TimK65 2y ago
    Many times I've stood in front of the displays in the Exit Concourse at Penn. As soon as they post the track for your train, you can just go downstairs to the platform.
    - bobthepanda 2y ago
      But that just makes the whole single file procedure even more dumb because it doesn’t catch everybody and it’s easy to avoid.
- nicwolff 2y ago
  Semi-secretly you can skip the lines at the escalators in Moynahan's big train hall and just go down to the mezzanine and right to the platforms.
dyauspitr 2y ago
That must be new or station specific because my experience has been to buy the tickets, stand on the platform, put away your bags yourself and take a seat. Tickets are checked on board. Very seamless and stress free.
Ericson2314 2y ago
Yes the bad airline mentality goes a long way to denying these things are possible. Once one accepts that people are going to constantly leaving and entering the platform, that all ticket checking must happen on the train to not impeed circulation, running way more trains needing fewer platforms is revealed as (a) possible, and (b) the right way to do things.
crenwick 2y ago
I ride Amtrak monthly, this is not true. Like every other train, ticket checking always happens while moving.
- rayiner 2y ago
  Not at NYP or DC Union Station. Also not at Philadelphia 30th street station.
  - mplanchard 2y ago
    I did a trip to NYC and back on Amtrak at the end of November, and the boarding process at Moynihan was the same as it had always been, with tickets checked once you're on board. Didn't know it was different boarding from Penn.
    - spokaneplumb 2y ago
      Is boarding at Moynihan what another poster is alluding to with the possibility of avoiding the choke-point boarding by simply not using the main waiting area? Or is that considered a separate stop, possibly requiring a different ticket (and, worse still, maybe being bypassed by certain trains)? I have minimal familiarity with NY and none with Penn, but will be Amtraking in and out in a couple weeks.
      - anyonecancode 2y ago
        I'm not sure about Amtrak boarding processes, but regarding Moynihan vs Penn: - Penn Station is directly under Madison Square Garden. There used to be a large building similar in scale to Grand Central Terminal, but it was rather controversially torn down in the 60s [1], and MSG built on its site and the train station portion becoming a bunch of tunnels beneath it. - Across the street from Penn was a big post office building, with a grand Neo-classical design. As an attempt to somewhat remedy the destruction of Penn decades earlier, NY state decided to turn that into a train hall, which opened in 2020 [2]. It's the same station stop as Penn, so you can really think of it more as just an expansion of it. Take the stairs on the western (toward the Hudson river) end of the platform and you'll emerge into a big open space with an atrium that looks like an actual train station, instead of the basement of MSG. (They've also been doing good work raising the ceiling and widening corridors in Penn, so there's more light and air, but you're still basically in the MSG basement even if it's less cramped now). [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_Penn_Station#Original_structure https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_Penn_Station#Original... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moynihan_Train_Hall https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moynihan_Train_Hall
rayiner 2y ago
Amtrak is run by the dumbest people in the country. Another gem: > Today, Amtrak schedules the Acela, which travels express between Washington and Boston, to overtake the slower, local Northeast Regional at Penn Station. The organization claims that this requires scheduled dwells of 30 minutes for Northeast Regional trains But why would anyone competent want to work for an organization like this?
- emchammer 2y ago
  Amtrak train crews are gems though.
- jazzyjackson 2y ago
  Total price segmentation, slowing down the northeast regional so people pay out extra for the Acela, nevermind that the northeast regional trains can run just as fast as acela for the vast majority of the route.
- thinkingtoilet 2y ago
  Do you have any idea of the history of why Amtrak was created? What limitations both funding and regulations are put on it? It's a god damn miracle it runs so well with what it's given. The dumbest thing is that we the people don't fund it and invest in rail, not people doing their best with what limited resource they are given in a country that is half a century behind when it comes to trains.
  - jazzyjackson 2y ago
    the freight companies lobbied for passenger travel to become the government's responsibility, IMO the american people were robbed of the value they were entitled to when the right of ways were granted to the railroads back in the 19th century, but in the 60s and 70s railroads were going bankrupt left and right, establishment of Amtrak was little more than a bailout for the railroads. The government could be asking a lot more of the railroads to run shorter trains so they could fit on their sidings and allow passengers to pass and remain on time. IME the #1 issue with Amtrak outside of north east corridor is most stations are served by long haul routes that cannot be relied upon to show up within 6 hours of their schedule, because any delay causes them to lose their slot and freight companies can tell Amtrak to pound sand, their trains are too long to pull over.
screye 2y ago
That's how the TGV and subways do it. You scan in. It's unconvienent if a human needs to read a ticket. But tap-in or scan-in systems are pretty fast.
- bobthepanda 2y ago
  I think the major difference between a subway turnstile and this is also the fact that it is single file. Gare du Nord has dozens of turnstiles, not a single turnstile per platform.
jackcarter 2y ago
It's been this way for over a decade: https://www.vox.com/2014/3/31/5563600/everything-you-need-to-know-about-boarding-an-amtrak-train https://www.vox.com/2014/3/31/5563600/everything-you-need-to...
- renewiltord 2y ago
  This method of boarding at DC famously resulted in 100+ passengers waiting upstairs as the train left without them https://wtop.com/travel/2024/12/passengers-frustrated-as-amtrak-train-pulls-out-without-passengers/ https://wtop.com/travel/2024/12/passengers-frustrated-as-amt...
Gibbon1 2y ago
I remember reading with horror that the California high speed rail will have the TSA doing security. That's absolutely last thing the systems needs.
Aperocky 2y ago
Huh? I ride amtrak every week and there are no ticket check until train has moved. And if you always come about 5-10 minutes before departure no lines either.
- oasisbob 2y ago
  Amtrak practices vary by region and station. Here on Amtrak Cascades, Seattle and Portland both do "airplane style" entry with ticket checks and sometimes seat assignment in the station, but at more minor stops (eg Longview, Bellingham) you hop aboard one of the open cars and get checked by the conductor.
tdeck 2y ago
I recently took Amtrak across the country. In both Seattle and Chicago I showed up about 10 minutes before my train departed. Sure, they checked my ticket before I got onto the platform, but the experience was absolutely nothing like taking a flight. I wonder if it was something about the particular day or station you were at that made this worse.
- bobthepanda 2y ago
  I saw airline style entry at both Seattle and Portland recently. So it's certainly not uncommon, since the train I was on (Cascades) runs multiple times daily.
  - tdeck 2y ago
    I don't much care where people check my ticket, as long as I don't have to arrive an hour early. The location of the ticket check isn't what makes airport travel a misery to me.
    - bobthepanda 2y ago
      The problem is having a whole train of people queue up takes like 15-30 minutes in the best of scenarios, assuming the train actually shows up by the time the queue has started, which it sometimes doesn’t. Cascades which runs between Seattle and Portland was the eight busiest route in 2023 with 746,000 riders so is substantially busier and more crowded than Seattle to Chicago.
MisterTea 2y ago
I take it once or twice a year to visit friends in the Baltimore area. Penn NY is guilty of that airline single file BS and find it completely annoying. At Baltimore Penn you just go to the platform and wait.
crazygringo 2y ago
It's been that way for decade(s?) in New York. Presumably because otherwise too many people try to take it a stop or two for free before the conductor comes around to check tickets. It's not a thing at any other Amtrak station I've been to, where the next stop often isn't for 45 minutes or more. And no you can't have conductors in every train car. That's way too expensive and not needed for the rest of the 12 hour journey or whatever it is.
- bobthepanda 2y ago
  No one said they had to travel with the train. I'm thinking more, gate agents rather than conductors checking tickets at each door, and they're just always at NY Penn since there's trains constantly leaving out of there.
  - crazygringo 2y ago
    What's wrong with the single file line? It moves plenty fast. It literally makes a difference of a minute or two, generally. I have plenty of complaints about Penn St/Moynihan and Amtrak. The single file line isn't one of them.
    - kkysen 2y ago
      An extra minute or two can mean a $17 billion expansion, so it matters.
    - bobthepanda 2y ago
      I've had the opposite experience where it isn't very fast at all. In fact this past holiday season Amtrak stranded 100+ people in DC because the train left before all tickets were checked. https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2024/12/27/amtrak-stranded-passengers-dc-union-station/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2024/12/27/amtrak-st...
      - crazygringo 2y ago
        In that story, it had nothing to do with the line, and everything to do with the fact that the train was incorrectly marked on the departures board. And if the line slows down, there are generally other factors involved. I mean, they don't even scan your ticket in the line -- they just glance to make sure you have one for that train on that day.
TimK65 2y ago
More than once I've stood in the line at Washington Union and said loudly, "If I wanted to fly, I'd fly." I'm 100% with you on this. It's idiotic.

jjice 2y ago

I haven't been on an Amtrak in about six months, so it may have changed, but where were you boarding? Was it New York? Boarding in NY is slow and structured, but when I've boarded in Back Bay (Boston), Portland (Maine), and Providence, it's the better way that you've mentioned. They make everyone rescan tickets for the North East regional in NY also, if you're just passing through. It's a bit annoying, but I wonder if the traffic getting on and off is too great in NY to be able to do that. I have no clue, though.

Ericson2314 2y ago
Yes their practice elsewhere is better. Amtrak seems to think that lazzaiz-faire platform ingress/egress doesn't scale to NY Penn, but that's exactly backwards — it's not letting people circulate freely which doesn't scale. Also, fun fact, if you don't go in the main hall Amtrak waiting area at NY Penn, you can board the platform whenever you want. But it's hard to figure out what platform/track to go to in advance — hiding that information is how they discourage this.
- craftkiller 2y ago
  laissez-faire
  - Ericson2314 2y ago
    :) Evidently I previously convinced Android to add my misspelling to the dictionary. Yikes!
- TimK65 2y ago
  Many times I've stood in front of the displays in the Exit Concourse at Penn. As soon as they post the track for your train, you can just go downstairs to the platform.
  - bobthepanda 2y ago
    But that just makes the whole single file procedure even more dumb because it doesn’t catch everybody and it’s easy to avoid.
nicwolff 2y ago
Semi-secretly you can skip the lines at the escalators in Moynahan's big train hall and just go down to the mezzanine and right to the platforms.

dyauspitr 2y ago

That must be new or station specific because my experience has been to buy the tickets, stand on the platform, put away your bags yourself and take a seat. Tickets are checked on board. Very seamless and stress free.

Ericson2314 2y ago

Yes the bad airline mentality goes a long way to denying these things are possible. Once one accepts that people are going to constantly leaving and entering the platform, that all ticket checking must happen on the train to not impeed circulation, running way more trains needing fewer platforms is revealed as (a) possible, and (b) the right way to do things.

crenwick 2y ago

I ride Amtrak monthly, this is not true. Like every other train, ticket checking always happens while moving.

rayiner 2y ago
Not at NYP or DC Union Station. Also not at Philadelphia 30th street station.
- mplanchard 2y ago
  I did a trip to NYC and back on Amtrak at the end of November, and the boarding process at Moynihan was the same as it had always been, with tickets checked once you're on board. Didn't know it was different boarding from Penn.
  - spokaneplumb 2y ago
    Is boarding at Moynihan what another poster is alluding to with the possibility of avoiding the choke-point boarding by simply not using the main waiting area? Or is that considered a separate stop, possibly requiring a different ticket (and, worse still, maybe being bypassed by certain trains)? I have minimal familiarity with NY and none with Penn, but will be Amtraking in and out in a couple weeks.
    - anyonecancode 2y ago
      I'm not sure about Amtrak boarding processes, but regarding Moynihan vs Penn: - Penn Station is directly under Madison Square Garden. There used to be a large building similar in scale to Grand Central Terminal, but it was rather controversially torn down in the 60s [1], and MSG built on its site and the train station portion becoming a bunch of tunnels beneath it. - Across the street from Penn was a big post office building, with a grand Neo-classical design. As an attempt to somewhat remedy the destruction of Penn decades earlier, NY state decided to turn that into a train hall, which opened in 2020 [2]. It's the same station stop as Penn, so you can really think of it more as just an expansion of it. Take the stairs on the western (toward the Hudson river) end of the platform and you'll emerge into a big open space with an atrium that looks like an actual train station, instead of the basement of MSG. (They've also been doing good work raising the ceiling and widening corridors in Penn, so there's more light and air, but you're still basically in the MSG basement even if it's less cramped now). [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_Penn_Station#Original_structure https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_Penn_Station#Original... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moynihan_Train_Hall https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moynihan_Train_Hall

rayiner 2y ago

Amtrak is run by the dumbest people in the country. Another gem: > Today, Amtrak schedules the Acela, which travels express between Washington and Boston, to overtake the slower, local Northeast Regional at Penn Station. The organization claims that this requires scheduled dwells of 30 minutes for Northeast Regional trains But why would anyone competent want to work for an organization like this?

emchammer 2y ago
Amtrak train crews are gems though.
jazzyjackson 2y ago
Total price segmentation, slowing down the northeast regional so people pay out extra for the Acela, nevermind that the northeast regional trains can run just as fast as acela for the vast majority of the route.
thinkingtoilet 2y ago
Do you have any idea of the history of why Amtrak was created? What limitations both funding and regulations are put on it? It's a god damn miracle it runs so well with what it's given. The dumbest thing is that we the people don't fund it and invest in rail, not people doing their best with what limited resource they are given in a country that is half a century behind when it comes to trains.
- jazzyjackson 2y ago
  the freight companies lobbied for passenger travel to become the government's responsibility, IMO the american people were robbed of the value they were entitled to when the right of ways were granted to the railroads back in the 19th century, but in the 60s and 70s railroads were going bankrupt left and right, establishment of Amtrak was little more than a bailout for the railroads. The government could be asking a lot more of the railroads to run shorter trains so they could fit on their sidings and allow passengers to pass and remain on time. IME the #1 issue with Amtrak outside of north east corridor is most stations are served by long haul routes that cannot be relied upon to show up within 6 hours of their schedule, because any delay causes them to lose their slot and freight companies can tell Amtrak to pound sand, their trains are too long to pull over.

screye 2y ago

That's how the TGV and subways do it. You scan in. It's unconvienent if a human needs to read a ticket. But tap-in or scan-in systems are pretty fast.

bobthepanda 2y ago
I think the major difference between a subway turnstile and this is also the fact that it is single file. Gare du Nord has dozens of turnstiles, not a single turnstile per platform.

jackcarter 2y ago

It's been this way for over a decade: https://www.vox.com/2014/3/31/5563600/everything-you-need-to-know-about-boarding-an-amtrak-train https://www.vox.com/2014/3/31/5563600/everything-you-need-to...

renewiltord 2y ago
This method of boarding at DC famously resulted in 100+ passengers waiting upstairs as the train left without them https://wtop.com/travel/2024/12/passengers-frustrated-as-amtrak-train-pulls-out-without-passengers/ https://wtop.com/travel/2024/12/passengers-frustrated-as-amt...

Gibbon1 2y ago

I remember reading with horror that the California high speed rail will have the TSA doing security. That's absolutely last thing the systems needs.

Aperocky 2y ago

Huh? I ride amtrak every week and there are no ticket check until train has moved. And if you always come about 5-10 minutes before departure no lines either.

oasisbob 2y ago
Amtrak practices vary by region and station. Here on Amtrak Cascades, Seattle and Portland both do "airplane style" entry with ticket checks and sometimes seat assignment in the station, but at more minor stops (eg Longview, Bellingham) you hop aboard one of the open cars and get checked by the conductor.

tdeck 2y ago

I recently took Amtrak across the country. In both Seattle and Chicago I showed up about 10 minutes before my train departed. Sure, they checked my ticket before I got onto the platform, but the experience was absolutely nothing like taking a flight. I wonder if it was something about the particular day or station you were at that made this worse.

bobthepanda 2y ago
I saw airline style entry at both Seattle and Portland recently. So it's certainly not uncommon, since the train I was on (Cascades) runs multiple times daily.
- tdeck 2y ago
  I don't much care where people check my ticket, as long as I don't have to arrive an hour early. The location of the ticket check isn't what makes airport travel a misery to me.
  - bobthepanda 2y ago
    The problem is having a whole train of people queue up takes like 15-30 minutes in the best of scenarios, assuming the train actually shows up by the time the queue has started, which it sometimes doesn’t. Cascades which runs between Seattle and Portland was the eight busiest route in 2023 with 746,000 riders so is substantially busier and more crowded than Seattle to Chicago.

MisterTea 2y ago

I take it once or twice a year to visit friends in the Baltimore area. Penn NY is guilty of that airline single file BS and find it completely annoying. At Baltimore Penn you just go to the platform and wait.

crazygringo 2y ago

It's been that way for decade(s?) in New York. Presumably because otherwise too many people try to take it a stop or two for free before the conductor comes around to check tickets. It's not a thing at any other Amtrak station I've been to, where the next stop often isn't for 45 minutes or more. And no you can't have conductors in every train car. That's way too expensive and not needed for the rest of the 12 hour journey or whatever it is.

bobthepanda 2y ago
No one said they had to travel with the train. I'm thinking more, gate agents rather than conductors checking tickets at each door, and they're just always at NY Penn since there's trains constantly leaving out of there.
- crazygringo 2y ago
  What's wrong with the single file line? It moves plenty fast. It literally makes a difference of a minute or two, generally. I have plenty of complaints about Penn St/Moynihan and Amtrak. The single file line isn't one of them.
  - kkysen 2y ago
    An extra minute or two can mean a $17 billion expansion, so it matters.
  - bobthepanda 2y ago
    I've had the opposite experience where it isn't very fast at all. In fact this past holiday season Amtrak stranded 100+ people in DC because the train left before all tickets were checked. https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2024/12/27/amtrak-stranded-passengers-dc-union-station/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2024/12/27/amtrak-st...
    - crazygringo 2y ago
      In that story, it had nothing to do with the line, and everything to do with the fact that the train was incorrectly marked on the departures board. And if the line slows down, there are generally other factors involved. I mean, they don't even scan your ticket in the line -- they just glance to make sure you have one for that train on that day.

TimK65 2y ago

More than once I've stood in the line at Washington Union and said loudly, "If I wanted to fly, I'd fly." I'm 100% with you on this. It's idiotic.