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I’ll work in tech for as long as it’s fun. But seriously, what’s a single good app out there that’s been written by AI with no developers involved? I don’t kno

I’ll work in tech for as long as it’s fun. But seriously, what’s a single good app out there that’s been written by AI with no developers involved? I don’t know of any. Not play apps, but real apps serving real users, with billing, subscriptions, some traffic, etc… Anyone know of one?

codingwagie 2y ago
Its not about generating a full app with AI. Its about the commoditization of coding as a skill set.
- TypingOutBugs 2y ago
  But what does that really even mean. What does 'commoditization of coding' literally look like? If you can't do a full app, what can you do?
  - 9rx 2y ago
    > What does 'commoditization of coding' literally look like? Presumably something like the 'commoditization of elevator operating' that we once saw. The elevator operator never went away, but operating elevators was simplified to the point that anyone could do it. At which time everyone started doing it, commoditizing the job. In other words, it looks like programming languages that become increasingly approachable to any old random person on the street who can jump in without any meaningful past experience or special knowledge. You know doubt already what that looks like because we're already using those programming languages (e.g. GPT) in narrow domains to great effect. They have yet to prove themselves as complete general purpose programming languages, but they have made great strives towards that and it is, by many accounts, now only a matter of time.
    - TypingOutBugs 2y ago
      I can see it for simple toys, I just can't see it for more complex projects. I have no idea how you could use natural language to describe some complex business rules, and once you start having to write in a more logical language it's verging on the precision of code. And to then be able to audit the system, make minor changes and regression test, etc... I can see it speeding engineers up, I can't see the guy on the clapham omnibus building a complex line of business app (or an operating system, flight computer, financial engine, MRI sequencer, etc...). And once it can't be your average Joe and it's someone who requires training, suddenly we're back to it not being a commodity.
      - 9rx 2y ago
        > I can see it speeding engineers up While in recent memory the engineer and the coder have oft been the same person, that wasn't always the case (historically there was a clear divide between the engineers and coders) and isn't always the case. I see no mention of engineers around this discussion. Is there a reason for its introduction?
        TypingOutBugs 2y ago
        I introduce professionals because I believe the real benefit will be speeding them up, not replacing them with laymen who suddenly have commoditised access to programming skills
        9rx 2y ago
        ? "Professional" was set out right from the onset. The question was about engineers, which, while it is true that coding and engineering is sometimes done by the same person, there is no reason why it has to be that way and, especially historically, coding is a separate job. The context is specifically about the job of coding, not the job of engineering. There is nothing to suggest engineers are being commoditized and never was.
        TypingOutBugs 2y ago
        I’m using the term engineer and software professional here interchangeably - I don’t get your points anymore
        9rx 2y ago
        So be it, but the topic is explicitly about "professional coders". Not "engineer", not "software professional". It is literally stated in the title of the original link. A coder and an engineer are not necessarily the same person. It has become more common to see people do both jobs, but in history it was unusual for the engineers and coders to be the same person, and the idea is that we're going back to that model – except this time the coder will be a machine instead of another human.
- marssaxman 2y ago
  Commoditization of coding as a skill set happened decades ago. When was the last time you wrote any assembly language? Nobody writes any actual code anymore - machines do it all for us, according to the loosey-goosey high-level instructions we now call "coding". Somehow, we all still have more work to do than ever... but that's just the Jevons paradox in action. If AI makes programmers more efficient, demand for programming services will only increase.
thiht 2y ago
There’s none.

codingwagie 2y ago

Its not about generating a full app with AI. Its about the commoditization of coding as a skill set.

TypingOutBugs 2y ago
But what does that really even mean. What does 'commoditization of coding' literally look like? If you can't do a full app, what can you do?
- 9rx 2y ago
  > What does 'commoditization of coding' literally look like? Presumably something like the 'commoditization of elevator operating' that we once saw. The elevator operator never went away, but operating elevators was simplified to the point that anyone could do it. At which time everyone started doing it, commoditizing the job. In other words, it looks like programming languages that become increasingly approachable to any old random person on the street who can jump in without any meaningful past experience or special knowledge. You know doubt already what that looks like because we're already using those programming languages (e.g. GPT) in narrow domains to great effect. They have yet to prove themselves as complete general purpose programming languages, but they have made great strives towards that and it is, by many accounts, now only a matter of time.
  - TypingOutBugs 2y ago
    I can see it for simple toys, I just can't see it for more complex projects. I have no idea how you could use natural language to describe some complex business rules, and once you start having to write in a more logical language it's verging on the precision of code. And to then be able to audit the system, make minor changes and regression test, etc... I can see it speeding engineers up, I can't see the guy on the clapham omnibus building a complex line of business app (or an operating system, flight computer, financial engine, MRI sequencer, etc...). And once it can't be your average Joe and it's someone who requires training, suddenly we're back to it not being a commodity.
    - 9rx 2y ago
      > I can see it speeding engineers up While in recent memory the engineer and the coder have oft been the same person, that wasn't always the case (historically there was a clear divide between the engineers and coders) and isn't always the case. I see no mention of engineers around this discussion. Is there a reason for its introduction?
      - TypingOutBugs 2y ago
        I introduce professionals because I believe the real benefit will be speeding them up, not replacing them with laymen who suddenly have commoditised access to programming skills
        9rx 2y ago
        ? "Professional" was set out right from the onset. The question was about engineers, which, while it is true that coding and engineering is sometimes done by the same person, there is no reason why it has to be that way and, especially historically, coding is a separate job. The context is specifically about the job of coding, not the job of engineering. There is nothing to suggest engineers are being commoditized and never was.
        TypingOutBugs 2y ago
        I’m using the term engineer and software professional here interchangeably - I don’t get your points anymore
        9rx 2y ago
        So be it, but the topic is explicitly about "professional coders". Not "engineer", not "software professional". It is literally stated in the title of the original link. A coder and an engineer are not necessarily the same person. It has become more common to see people do both jobs, but in history it was unusual for the engineers and coders to be the same person, and the idea is that we're going back to that model – except this time the coder will be a machine instead of another human.
marssaxman 2y ago
Commoditization of coding as a skill set happened decades ago. When was the last time you wrote any assembly language? Nobody writes any actual code anymore - machines do it all for us, according to the loosey-goosey high-level instructions we now call "coding". Somehow, we all still have more work to do than ever... but that's just the Jevons paradox in action. If AI makes programmers more efficient, demand for programming services will only increase.

thiht 2y ago

There’s none.