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Until big fertilizer lobbies to make decentralized fertilizer illegal. Insert national security, wrong hands blah blah

cogman10 2y ago
NGL, it would be an easy sell. You are just a hop/skip and a quack away from turning that decentralized fertilizer into a decentralized bomb making system.
- dizzant 2y ago
  A hop, skip, quack, jump, and fairly obvious high-energy distillation process away. The national security angle probably isn't a concern here for the same reason that this process doesn't produce good fuel.
  - darksaints 2y ago
    Ammonium nitrate is made from ammonia and nitric acid (which is also made from ammonia). Therefore, ammonia is the only necessary direct precursor to ammonium nitrate, which is probably the most relevant oxidizer in improvised explosives today. Not saying that it should be regulated on the basis of national security, but it’s not like there isn’t a potential security concern.
gopalv 2y ago
> Insert national security, wrong hands blah blah That isn't a big reach. Ammonium nitrate is already controlled in several parts of the world https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ANFO https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ANFO
- themaninthedark 2y ago
  ANFO is explosives made with ammonium nitrate(Ammonium Nitrate Fuel Oil), however ammonium nitrate is by itself rather energetic and will explode when store improperly. The most recent memorable incident would be 2020 Beirut: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Beirut_explosion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Beirut_explosion Imagine one of these units left somewhere, slowly filling a tank that has not been sealed, water evaporating back out leaving a nice ammonium nitrate powder behind....
  - aaron695 2y ago
    [dead]
  - bot403 2y ago
    I'm no chemist so someone will have to explain to me how ammonia sitting around by itself, without water, just becomes ammonium nitrate.
    - GauntletWizard 2y ago
      There's a ton of water in the air for it to react with
dylan604 2y ago
What happens when your decentralized fertilizer mixes with someone's copyrighted/trademarked fertilizer? Do you have to pay them their dues? If you think this is outlandish, you must not be familiar with Monsanto
- bluGill 2y ago
  That is an exaggeration. The only time Monsanto did anything was cases of intentional mixing.
- 9rx 2y ago
  > you must not be familiar with Monsanto It has been out of business for almost seven years now. Who is putting any energy into remembering them at this point?
  - jfengel 2y ago
    It's not out of business. It merged with Bayer. It's a change in ownership, and to some degree a change in upper management, but large swathes of the company are unchanged.
    - 9rx 2y ago
      Its assets were sold to Bayer and BASF and some former Monsanto workers may have begun working at those other businesses, that is true. That kind of scenario is true of all businesses that close down, though, at least unless they truly have no remaining assets to sell or workers wanting new jobs, both of which are unlikely for anything beyond the simplest of sole proprietorships. By your logic, there is almost no business in history that has ever gone out of business.
Am4TIfIsER0ppos 2y ago
[flagged]

NGL, it would be an easy sell. You are just a hop/skip and a quack away from turning that decentralized fertilizer into a decentralized bomb making system.

dizzant 2y ago
A hop, skip, quack, jump, and fairly obvious high-energy distillation process away. The national security angle probably isn't a concern here for the same reason that this process doesn't produce good fuel.
- darksaints 2y ago
  Ammonium nitrate is made from ammonia and nitric acid (which is also made from ammonia). Therefore, ammonia is the only necessary direct precursor to ammonium nitrate, which is probably the most relevant oxidizer in improvised explosives today. Not saying that it should be regulated on the basis of national security, but it’s not like there isn’t a potential security concern.

gopalv 2y ago

> Insert national security, wrong hands blah blah That isn't a big reach. Ammonium nitrate is already controlled in several parts of the world https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ANFO https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ANFO

themaninthedark 2y ago
ANFO is explosives made with ammonium nitrate(Ammonium Nitrate Fuel Oil), however ammonium nitrate is by itself rather energetic and will explode when store improperly. The most recent memorable incident would be 2020 Beirut: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Beirut_explosion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Beirut_explosion Imagine one of these units left somewhere, slowly filling a tank that has not been sealed, water evaporating back out leaving a nice ammonium nitrate powder behind....
- aaron695 2y ago
  [dead]
- bot403 2y ago
  I'm no chemist so someone will have to explain to me how ammonia sitting around by itself, without water, just becomes ammonium nitrate.
  - GauntletWizard 2y ago
    There's a ton of water in the air for it to react with

dylan604 2y ago

What happens when your decentralized fertilizer mixes with someone's copyrighted/trademarked fertilizer? Do you have to pay them their dues? If you think this is outlandish, you must not be familiar with Monsanto

bluGill 2y ago
That is an exaggeration. The only time Monsanto did anything was cases of intentional mixing.
9rx 2y ago
> you must not be familiar with Monsanto It has been out of business for almost seven years now. Who is putting any energy into remembering them at this point?
- jfengel 2y ago
  It's not out of business. It merged with Bayer. It's a change in ownership, and to some degree a change in upper management, but large swathes of the company are unchanged.
  - 9rx 2y ago
    Its assets were sold to Bayer and BASF and some former Monsanto workers may have begun working at those other businesses, that is true. That kind of scenario is true of all businesses that close down, though, at least unless they truly have no remaining assets to sell or workers wanting new jobs, both of which are unlikely for anything beyond the simplest of sole proprietorships. By your logic, there is almost no business in history that has ever gone out of business.

Am4TIfIsER0ppos 2y ago

[flagged]