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95% of writing a good iOS app involves knowledge and skills unrelated to the language. The tools, the frameworks, the design and interaction models, location aw

95% of writing a good iOS app involves knowledge and skills unrelated to the language. The tools, the frameworks, the design and interaction models, location awareness, and more. Objective-C is a microscopic hurdle compared to getting the rest of it right.

10char 14y ago
Totally agree with that, but RubyMotion is more than just the Ruby language. There's no heavy IDE, no complex target/build setup, comes with a lightweight test environment, an interactive REPL...all that adds up to remove a lot of pain in the existing iOS workflow. You can definitely be proficient with the existing tools but I think RM is a lot better for newcomers. There are some problems (debugging isn't great right now, memory bugs happen if you do tricky things), but it's only a few months old and I'm confident it'll get better over time.
makaio 14y ago
Objective-C is a fine language and is pretty easy to learn. Nevertheless there are a few advantages to RubyMotion for certain developers: * No XCode. Getting comfortable with Xcode takes time and I frequently hear people complain about it crashing, being bloated, etc. With RubyMotion you can just use your regular text editor and a command line. * Ruby. While Objective-C isn't bad, I actually enjoy using Ruby. I'm much more likely to refactor and abstract functionality. * Third-party gems and code: While there are limitations, it is generally pretty easy to use gems and other ruby code in RubyMotion. From what I understand, you can also call out to third-party Objective-C libraries from within RubyMotion, so you don't lose out on that ability. * REPL: Using a terminal and the simulator you can interact with your code while its running.
- ctide 14y ago
  I wouldn't recommend using a regular text editor and dealing with the iOS APIs. I pretty much despise IDEs, but sadly the objective-c paragraph long method signatures require it. That's actually why I didn't even bother with RubyMotion, it doesn't solve the thing I hate the most about objective-c. I just use AppCode, with Xcode for interface builder and dealing with things like data models. It's closest enough to something that isn't a total piece of shit so that I can avoid slitting my wrists all day.
  - Argorak 14y ago
    Having a text editor does not mean that completion does not work. ctags etc. provide such features. It might not be as good as completion using a static type checker and might have false positives, but "uninformed" completion goes a long way. Also, some of the higher level api look much more Ruby-like: https://github.com/rubymotion/BubbleWrap https://github.com/rubymotion/BubbleWrap
thibaut_barrere 14y ago
Well I already saved 5% then, which is a good start.
- mikeash 14y ago
  Trouble is that by ignoring Objective-C, you make the rest far more than 5% harder. Like it or not, it's the native language of the platform, and all of the documentation, sample code, and community help assume familiarity with it.

10char 14y ago

Totally agree with that, but RubyMotion is more than just the Ruby language. There's no heavy IDE, no complex target/build setup, comes with a lightweight test environment, an interactive REPL...all that adds up to remove a lot of pain in the existing iOS workflow. You can definitely be proficient with the existing tools but I think RM is a lot better for newcomers. There are some problems (debugging isn't great right now, memory bugs happen if you do tricky things), but it's only a few months old and I'm confident it'll get better over time.

makaio 14y ago

Objective-C is a fine language and is pretty easy to learn. Nevertheless there are a few advantages to RubyMotion for certain developers: * No XCode. Getting comfortable with Xcode takes time and I frequently hear people complain about it crashing, being bloated, etc. With RubyMotion you can just use your regular text editor and a command line. * Ruby. While Objective-C isn't bad, I actually enjoy using Ruby. I'm much more likely to refactor and abstract functionality. * Third-party gems and code: While there are limitations, it is generally pretty easy to use gems and other ruby code in RubyMotion. From what I understand, you can also call out to third-party Objective-C libraries from within RubyMotion, so you don't lose out on that ability. * REPL: Using a terminal and the simulator you can interact with your code while its running.

ctide 14y ago
I wouldn't recommend using a regular text editor and dealing with the iOS APIs. I pretty much despise IDEs, but sadly the objective-c paragraph long method signatures require it. That's actually why I didn't even bother with RubyMotion, it doesn't solve the thing I hate the most about objective-c. I just use AppCode, with Xcode for interface builder and dealing with things like data models. It's closest enough to something that isn't a total piece of shit so that I can avoid slitting my wrists all day.
- Argorak 14y ago
  Having a text editor does not mean that completion does not work. ctags etc. provide such features. It might not be as good as completion using a static type checker and might have false positives, but "uninformed" completion goes a long way. Also, some of the higher level api look much more Ruby-like: https://github.com/rubymotion/BubbleWrap https://github.com/rubymotion/BubbleWrap

thibaut_barrere 14y ago

Well I already saved 5% then, which is a good start.

mikeash 14y ago
Trouble is that by ignoring Objective-C, you make the rest far more than 5% harder. Like it or not, it's the native language of the platform, and all of the documentation, sample code, and community help assume familiarity with it.