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Microsoft hasn’t forced OEMd to bundle Windows for decades. The fact is hardly anyone wants Linux. Also a Windows license is actually more or less free to OE

Microsoft hasn’t forced OEMd to bundle Windows for decades. The fact is hardly anyone wants Linux. Also a Windows license is actually more or less free to OEMs since they can bundle crapware with it and get paid by third parties.

AnthonyMouse 2y ago
> The fact is hardly anyone wants Linux. Linux market share keeps increasing over time with a pretty solid growth rate, to the point that Linux + ChromeOS now has the market share that macOS did in 2010 (with non-ChromeOS being the larger portion). For something with minimal promotion or availability in retail stores, what explains that except for increasing numbers of people going out and specifically requesting it? > Also a Windows license is actually more or less free to OEMs since they can bundle crapware with it and get paid by third parties. That's not "free". They could be bundling the crapware with Linux and then keeping the money instead of forking it over to Microsoft.
- scarface_74 2y ago
  ChromeOS is no more what people consider “Linux” than iOS, MacOS etc is considered BSD. https://www.statista.com/statistics/268237/global-market-share-held-by-operating-systems-since-2009/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/268237/global-market-sha... Linux is at less than 5% and was at around 1% in 2012. ChromeOS is at less than 2% and most of that is in schools. Macs had much more than 2% in 2010. > They could be bundling the crapware with Linux and then keeping the money instead of forking it over to Microsoft. What company is going to pay for Linux Crapware?
  - AnthonyMouse 2y ago
    > ChromeOS is no more what people consider “Linux” than iOS, MacOS etc is considered BSD. ChromiumOS is a Linux distribution and ChromeOS is basically ChromiumOS with Google Play etc. Whereas macOS isn't just FreeBSD with the App Store and Safari and in particular it's only licensed to run on Apple's hardware. > Linux is at less than 5% and was at around 1% in 2012. It was around 1% forever, until recently it wasn't. > ChromeOS is at less than 2% and most of that is in schools. Macs had much more than 2% in 2010. Macs had 6% in 2010, which is the same as Linux has now. And the Macs were disproportionately in schools too. Now the Mac market share is above 20%, because eventually the people using it in schools start using it somewhere else, so if people are using non-Windows systems in schools now... > What company is going to pay for Linux Crapware? The same ones paying for Windows Crapware, presumably.
    - scarface_74 2y ago
      > Now the Mac market share is above 20%, because eventually the people using it in schools start using it somewhere else Absolutely no kid says “I love these shitty Chrome OS laptops that I have to use in schools. Can I have one at home!” When they get to choose a computer for college at least in the US, they overwhelmingly choose Macs. And Dell overtook Apple in schools in 1999. Even back in 2010, 70% of students were choosing to buy Macs for college https://www.asymco.com/2010/08/04/70-percent-of-college-freshman-are-entering-school-with-macs/ https://www.asymco.com/2010/08/04/70-percent-of-college-fres... That trend has continued at least through 2020. https://www.jamf.com/resources/press-releases/new-research-finds-71-of-students-in-higher-education-today-use-or-would-prefer-to-use-mac/ https://www.jamf.com/resources/press-releases/new-research-f... And saying that Linux grew from 1% to 5% in 10 years means it’s going to grow to 25% reads like every startup pitch. “We doubled from 1% to 2% in a year. At this rate we will have almost 70% of the market in 6 years!” The “Year of the Desktop Linux” has been a meme for over 25 years. https://www.howtogeek.com/676963/why-desktop-linux-still-matters/?utm_source=chatgpt.com https://www.howtogeek.com/676963/why-desktop-linux-still-mat...
      - AnthonyMouse 2y ago
        > Absolutely no kid says “I love these shitty Chrome OS laptops that I have to use in schools. Can I have one at home!” When they get to choose a computer for college at least in the US, they overwhelmingly choose Macs. The value of ChromeOS to Linux in general is that it has no Windows-specific dependencies. They don't have to like the hardware, Linux runs on all kinds of hardware. But if they cut their teeth on Windows then they're trained on MS Office etc., and on ChromeOS they're not. Then they get a job and don't expect MS Office, so a work PC running Ubuntu is just fine. > And saying that Linux grew from 1% to 5% in 10 years means it’s going to grow to 25% reads like every startup pitch. “We doubled from 1% to 2% in a year. At this rate we will have almost 70% of the market in 6 years!” Except that it was from 1.x% to 4.x% in four years, as a result of a confluence of factors that continue to be present: Historical Windows-specific software is declining as it's converted to web and mobile, Valve continues to increase the viability of Linux gaming (which is the largest remaining holdout in the former category), users are increasingly frustrated with Microsoft who is now making more money from Azure than Windows and increasingly unafraid to piss people off with start menu ads and dark patterns, Windows 10 is about to go EOL and with it the vast quantities of PC hardware that don't officially support Windows 11 but run Linux just fine, etc. Is it going to continue to increase at >50% a year forever? Probably not. Is it going to keep going up? It certainly seems that way.

AnthonyMouse 2y ago

> The fact is hardly anyone wants Linux. Linux market share keeps increasing over time with a pretty solid growth rate, to the point that Linux + ChromeOS now has the market share that macOS did in 2010 (with non-ChromeOS being the larger portion). For something with minimal promotion or availability in retail stores, what explains that except for increasing numbers of people going out and specifically requesting it? > Also a Windows license is actually more or less free to OEMs since they can bundle crapware with it and get paid by third parties. That's not "free". They could be bundling the crapware with Linux and then keeping the money instead of forking it over to Microsoft.

scarface_74 2y ago
ChromeOS is no more what people consider “Linux” than iOS, MacOS etc is considered BSD. https://www.statista.com/statistics/268237/global-market-share-held-by-operating-systems-since-2009/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/268237/global-market-sha... Linux is at less than 5% and was at around 1% in 2012. ChromeOS is at less than 2% and most of that is in schools. Macs had much more than 2% in 2010. > They could be bundling the crapware with Linux and then keeping the money instead of forking it over to Microsoft. What company is going to pay for Linux Crapware?
- AnthonyMouse 2y ago
  > ChromeOS is no more what people consider “Linux” than iOS, MacOS etc is considered BSD. ChromiumOS is a Linux distribution and ChromeOS is basically ChromiumOS with Google Play etc. Whereas macOS isn't just FreeBSD with the App Store and Safari and in particular it's only licensed to run on Apple's hardware. > Linux is at less than 5% and was at around 1% in 2012. It was around 1% forever, until recently it wasn't. > ChromeOS is at less than 2% and most of that is in schools. Macs had much more than 2% in 2010. Macs had 6% in 2010, which is the same as Linux has now. And the Macs were disproportionately in schools too. Now the Mac market share is above 20%, because eventually the people using it in schools start using it somewhere else, so if people are using non-Windows systems in schools now... > What company is going to pay for Linux Crapware? The same ones paying for Windows Crapware, presumably.
  - scarface_74 2y ago
    > Now the Mac market share is above 20%, because eventually the people using it in schools start using it somewhere else Absolutely no kid says “I love these shitty Chrome OS laptops that I have to use in schools. Can I have one at home!” When they get to choose a computer for college at least in the US, they overwhelmingly choose Macs. And Dell overtook Apple in schools in 1999. Even back in 2010, 70% of students were choosing to buy Macs for college https://www.asymco.com/2010/08/04/70-percent-of-college-freshman-are-entering-school-with-macs/ https://www.asymco.com/2010/08/04/70-percent-of-college-fres... That trend has continued at least through 2020. https://www.jamf.com/resources/press-releases/new-research-finds-71-of-students-in-higher-education-today-use-or-would-prefer-to-use-mac/ https://www.jamf.com/resources/press-releases/new-research-f... And saying that Linux grew from 1% to 5% in 10 years means it’s going to grow to 25% reads like every startup pitch. “We doubled from 1% to 2% in a year. At this rate we will have almost 70% of the market in 6 years!” The “Year of the Desktop Linux” has been a meme for over 25 years. https://www.howtogeek.com/676963/why-desktop-linux-still-matters/?utm_source=chatgpt.com https://www.howtogeek.com/676963/why-desktop-linux-still-mat...
    - AnthonyMouse 2y ago
      > Absolutely no kid says “I love these shitty Chrome OS laptops that I have to use in schools. Can I have one at home!” When they get to choose a computer for college at least in the US, they overwhelmingly choose Macs. The value of ChromeOS to Linux in general is that it has no Windows-specific dependencies. They don't have to like the hardware, Linux runs on all kinds of hardware. But if they cut their teeth on Windows then they're trained on MS Office etc., and on ChromeOS they're not. Then they get a job and don't expect MS Office, so a work PC running Ubuntu is just fine. > And saying that Linux grew from 1% to 5% in 10 years means it’s going to grow to 25% reads like every startup pitch. “We doubled from 1% to 2% in a year. At this rate we will have almost 70% of the market in 6 years!” Except that it was from 1.x% to 4.x% in four years, as a result of a confluence of factors that continue to be present: Historical Windows-specific software is declining as it's converted to web and mobile, Valve continues to increase the viability of Linux gaming (which is the largest remaining holdout in the former category), users are increasingly frustrated with Microsoft who is now making more money from Azure than Windows and increasingly unafraid to piss people off with start menu ads and dark patterns, Windows 10 is about to go EOL and with it the vast quantities of PC hardware that don't officially support Windows 11 but run Linux just fine, etc. Is it going to continue to increase at >50% a year forever? Probably not. Is it going to keep going up? It certainly seems that way.