3 ms·

I lean in the opposite direction, just remove the ability to specify the font type on webpages and let the browser use whatever is the system defaults.

Linkd 2y ago
[flagged]
- mrweasel 2y ago
  What difference does it make what font a website uses? I get having a monotype, a serif and possibly a sans-serif, obviously setting the font size should be a thing, but the actual font? I just don't see what difference it makes if a website is in Helvetica, Times New Roman or Arial. If one font is easier for me to read than another I can chance it in my browser, which makes more sense than letting some web designer, who's more focused on brand identity, pick a font for me. There might be some cases where you really wish you could pick a specific font, but you can't really use it to convey meaning anyway, because that would not work for screen readers or people who chance the font on their system to help readability.
  - moralestapia 2y ago
    >Why are there many clothing brands instead of just one that makes the same thing all the time? >Why are people allowed to choose different things? Why don't they just let me choose what's good for everybody?
- ndriscoll 2y ago
  Why would a website need a different font from the system font? I can get that there's "better" fonts (or at least worse ones) with different kerning or whatever, but surely people want a good font for everything? So the system is the right place to fix it. Firefox lets you disable the ability for web pages to override the system font, and I did that a while back. Throw web fonts in the bad idea pile with blink and marquee.
  - vFunct 2y ago
    It’s usually because the system font is ugly, causing your fashion website to lose sales because it doesn’t match the style you’re selling. The style IS the message.
    - ndriscoll 2y ago
      Why would a user agent build functionality for more effective advertising?
      - vFunct 2y ago
        So you have more effective advertising? Oh, you thought people were gonna make websites for free?
        ndriscoll 2y ago
        Yes? A massive amount of material on the web (including basically everything worthwhile) is given and frequently even made for free. In any case, that has nothing to do with the user agent. Why would browsers (the agent of the user) implement functionality to make more effective advertisements?
        KronisLV 2y ago
        For the same reason that an OS like Windows puts ads in their Start Menu, presumably. Because their audiences are either captive, uneducated, uncaring or a mix of those and therefore will accept whatever defaults you throw at them. If those defaults help you as the org to make more money, then it’s a no brainer.
        vFunct 2y ago
        The free stuff is junk. Anything worthwhile you will need to pay for. People don’t want to work for free, regardless of how little you value their time. As always, you get what you pay for.
- vFunct 2y ago
  Unless you’re in fashion, you likely won’t. In fashion (and a lot of other fields), the style IS the message.
- dang 2y ago
  Please don't cross into personal attack. It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
phkahler 2y ago
This is the right answer. I've never understood why "designers" feel the need to decide what font looks good to other people. You can specify font size and that should be enough.
- graemep 2y ago
  because the customers have been trained to think that websites are about design. Its something the people paying for the site can understand. It leads to lots of bike shedding too.
- dingnuts 2y ago
  designers entire profession is around figuring out what looks good to the most people, not just fonts; your comment is so ignorant and dismissive of an entire profession that it's startling. you are hereby cursed to use papyrus to code and you will be forced to drive an AMC Gremlin until you appreciate the value of visual design
  - IsTom 2y ago
    I've seen what designers make and I'm mostly not impressed.
  - esperent 2y ago
    > your comment is so ignorant and dismissive of an entire profession that it's startling It's unfortunately not at all startling, not on Hackernews. People here have the worst case of being good at one thing (usually software/systems/databases or similar) and assuming this means that they know more about everything else than everyone else, that I've ever seen in an online community. I think it's called Neil Degrasse Tyson syndrome.
- tgv 2y ago
  You can still build web pages like it's 1999. Nothing is stopping you. You can add menu bars like you're imitating Word 6, for all I care. But people will stop visiting your site. The eye likes candy. That's why.
kijin 2y ago
In a perfect world, that would be glorious. In the real world, designers will just plaster all webpages with images to replicate the fonts they aren't allowed to use. SVG sprites, anyone? :(
- __MatrixMan__ 2y ago
  Perhaps soon we'll just render the page in a headless VM and have an AI extract the important parts, styled according to to user's wishes--a sort of condom for the web--svg-text being the least evil of the things we're filtering.
__MatrixMan__ 2y ago
While we're at it, can we take color away too? Dark mode should be a browser feature, not a site feature. If I want green mode for work tabs and blue mode for personal ones, and red for one's my peers find dubious... That should be between me and the browser without the site author's involvement.
- ndriscoll 2y ago
  You can actually take this away in Firefox! Go to your color settings and set the drop-down to always use your specified palette. Not sure if there's a way to do it based on container tabs. I don't really use containers. Unfortunately missing color variety reveals that many sites have garbage layouts and missing labels on things and do stuff like use div where they meant button, so things can be difficult to use at times. This site remains completely usable.

Linkd 2y ago

[flagged]

mrweasel 2y ago
What difference does it make what font a website uses? I get having a monotype, a serif and possibly a sans-serif, obviously setting the font size should be a thing, but the actual font? I just don't see what difference it makes if a website is in Helvetica, Times New Roman or Arial. If one font is easier for me to read than another I can chance it in my browser, which makes more sense than letting some web designer, who's more focused on brand identity, pick a font for me. There might be some cases where you really wish you could pick a specific font, but you can't really use it to convey meaning anyway, because that would not work for screen readers or people who chance the font on their system to help readability.
- moralestapia 2y ago
  >Why are there many clothing brands instead of just one that makes the same thing all the time? >Why are people allowed to choose different things? Why don't they just let me choose what's good for everybody?
ndriscoll 2y ago
Why would a website need a different font from the system font? I can get that there's "better" fonts (or at least worse ones) with different kerning or whatever, but surely people want a good font for everything? So the system is the right place to fix it. Firefox lets you disable the ability for web pages to override the system font, and I did that a while back. Throw web fonts in the bad idea pile with blink and marquee.
- vFunct 2y ago
  It’s usually because the system font is ugly, causing your fashion website to lose sales because it doesn’t match the style you’re selling. The style IS the message.
  - ndriscoll 2y ago
    Why would a user agent build functionality for more effective advertising?
    - vFunct 2y ago
      So you have more effective advertising? Oh, you thought people were gonna make websites for free?
      - ndriscoll 2y ago
        Yes? A massive amount of material on the web (including basically everything worthwhile) is given and frequently even made for free. In any case, that has nothing to do with the user agent. Why would browsers (the agent of the user) implement functionality to make more effective advertisements?
        KronisLV 2y ago
        For the same reason that an OS like Windows puts ads in their Start Menu, presumably. Because their audiences are either captive, uneducated, uncaring or a mix of those and therefore will accept whatever defaults you throw at them. If those defaults help you as the org to make more money, then it’s a no brainer.
        vFunct 2y ago
        The free stuff is junk. Anything worthwhile you will need to pay for. People don’t want to work for free, regardless of how little you value their time. As always, you get what you pay for.
vFunct 2y ago
Unless you’re in fashion, you likely won’t. In fashion (and a lot of other fields), the style IS the message.
dang 2y ago
Please don't cross into personal attack. It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

phkahler 2y ago

This is the right answer. I've never understood why "designers" feel the need to decide what font looks good to other people. You can specify font size and that should be enough.

graemep 2y ago
because the customers have been trained to think that websites are about design. Its something the people paying for the site can understand. It leads to lots of bike shedding too.
dingnuts 2y ago
designers entire profession is around figuring out what looks good to the most people, not just fonts; your comment is so ignorant and dismissive of an entire profession that it's startling. you are hereby cursed to use papyrus to code and you will be forced to drive an AMC Gremlin until you appreciate the value of visual design
- IsTom 2y ago
  I've seen what designers make and I'm mostly not impressed.
- esperent 2y ago
  > your comment is so ignorant and dismissive of an entire profession that it's startling It's unfortunately not at all startling, not on Hackernews. People here have the worst case of being good at one thing (usually software/systems/databases or similar) and assuming this means that they know more about everything else than everyone else, that I've ever seen in an online community. I think it's called Neil Degrasse Tyson syndrome.
tgv 2y ago
You can still build web pages like it's 1999. Nothing is stopping you. You can add menu bars like you're imitating Word 6, for all I care. But people will stop visiting your site. The eye likes candy. That's why.

kijin 2y ago

In a perfect world, that would be glorious. In the real world, designers will just plaster all webpages with images to replicate the fonts they aren't allowed to use. SVG sprites, anyone? :(

__MatrixMan__ 2y ago
Perhaps soon we'll just render the page in a headless VM and have an AI extract the important parts, styled according to to user's wishes--a sort of condom for the web--svg-text being the least evil of the things we're filtering.

__MatrixMan__ 2y ago

While we're at it, can we take color away too? Dark mode should be a browser feature, not a site feature. If I want green mode for work tabs and blue mode for personal ones, and red for one's my peers find dubious... That should be between me and the browser without the site author's involvement.

ndriscoll 2y ago
You can actually take this away in Firefox! Go to your color settings and set the drop-down to always use your specified palette. Not sure if there's a way to do it based on container tabs. I don't really use containers. Unfortunately missing color variety reveals that many sites have garbage layouts and missing labels on things and do stuff like use div where they meant button, so things can be difficult to use at times. This site remains completely usable.