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The OP's point is that it is still being repeated right now.

by HKH2 2y ago

eckesicle 2y ago
For context, there are around 40 million people living in some form of slavery today, around four times the number of people who were sold in the trans-Atlantic slave trade, so it is by no means a solved problem. Most people in slavery today live in Asia and the Middle East, but there are pockets in Africa where it is common too. Modern slaves are sold for as little as $10-$100 and are therefore often considered disposable by their perpetrators. Approx 70% are women and 25% children. Slavery is illegal everywhere in the world but enforcement is lax or non-existent in some countries, notably Libya and Yemen.
- wat10000 2y ago
  Relative to population, that’s probably the lowest it’s ever been. Obviously the correct number is zero, but it’s an unfortunate fact of life that bad stuff tends to scale with population just like good stuff.
  - eckesicle 2y ago
    Yes, but unlike other bad stuff, like homicides, this issue isn’t homogeneously distributed over the world. It’s disproportionately concentrated to a small number of countries and regions, that for various reasons and to various degrees tacitly condone it.
    - wat10000 2y ago
      Homicide is pretty concentrated too. The rate varies 100x or more between the best and the worst countries, and there’s enormous variation within countries too. I’m not sure it’s as extreme as you suggest. Looking up stats on slavery in different countries, there are definitely some extreme outliers, but they don’t account for that much of the global total. And by far the worst offender is North Korea, which is never mentioned in these discussion. I also have no idea how accurate these figures are, but the focus on places like Libya doesn’t seem like an honest assessment of the situation. In any case, I’m not sure how this matters. I guess it would influence how you fight it. If it’s concentrated in a few countries then you’d want pressure on those governments specifically. But in terms of how bad the problem is, I don’t see that it really matters how geographically spread out it is.
wat10000 2y ago
Yes, thank you, that was quite obvious. My point, in case it somehow wasn’t obvious, is that we shouldn’t ignore the past just because problems continue.
- HKH2 2y ago
  The people that are given the most negative attention are those that have admitted guilt. The key to success in the liberal order is to shrug it off and chalk it up to cultural differences.
  - wat10000 2y ago
    Case in point: slavery in the US prior to the Civil War is widely acknowledged to be wrong and gets lots of negative attention. Slavery in the US today is barely acknowledged to even exist and gets little negative attention. It’s funny how people who want to deflect away from discussing the Atlantic slave trade by bringing up modern slavery always mention countries like Libya, and not the US. I imagine it’s worse in Libya, but “why focus on the US’s past when slavery is alive and well here in the present” would hit a lot closer to home and would probably be a lot easier to fix.
    - mrguyorama 2y ago
      Unfortunately a significant fraction of the US is entirely okay with people (mostly black people) being turned into indentured servants for our prison system. They have zero appetite for prison reform, justice reform, police reform, etc, and would much rather we all sit down and shut up.
      - HKH2 2y ago
        I am completely against private prisons. Providing there are legitimate reasons for someone to be in prison, how is it wrong to make them at least cover their own costs?
        2y ago

The OP's point is that it is still being repeated right now.

by HKH2 2y ago

The OP's point is that it is still being repeated right now.

For context, there are around 40 million people living in some form of slavery today, around four times the number of people who were sold in the trans-Atlantic slave trade, so it is by no means a solved problem. Most people in slavery today live in Asia and the Middle East, but there are pockets in Africa where it is common too. Modern slaves are sold for as little as $10-$100 and are therefore often considered disposable by their perpetrators. Approx 70% are women and 25% children. Slavery is illegal everywhere in the world but enforcement is lax or non-existent in some countries, notably Libya and Yemen.

wat10000 2y ago
Relative to population, that’s probably the lowest it’s ever been. Obviously the correct number is zero, but it’s an unfortunate fact of life that bad stuff tends to scale with population just like good stuff.
- eckesicle 2y ago
  Yes, but unlike other bad stuff, like homicides, this issue isn’t homogeneously distributed over the world. It’s disproportionately concentrated to a small number of countries and regions, that for various reasons and to various degrees tacitly condone it.
  - wat10000 2y ago
    Homicide is pretty concentrated too. The rate varies 100x or more between the best and the worst countries, and there’s enormous variation within countries too. I’m not sure it’s as extreme as you suggest. Looking up stats on slavery in different countries, there are definitely some extreme outliers, but they don’t account for that much of the global total. And by far the worst offender is North Korea, which is never mentioned in these discussion. I also have no idea how accurate these figures are, but the focus on places like Libya doesn’t seem like an honest assessment of the situation. In any case, I’m not sure how this matters. I guess it would influence how you fight it. If it’s concentrated in a few countries then you’d want pressure on those governments specifically. But in terms of how bad the problem is, I don’t see that it really matters how geographically spread out it is.

wat10000 2y ago

Yes, thank you, that was quite obvious. My point, in case it somehow wasn’t obvious, is that we shouldn’t ignore the past just because problems continue.

HKH2 2y ago
The people that are given the most negative attention are those that have admitted guilt. The key to success in the liberal order is to shrug it off and chalk it up to cultural differences.
- wat10000 2y ago
  Case in point: slavery in the US prior to the Civil War is widely acknowledged to be wrong and gets lots of negative attention. Slavery in the US today is barely acknowledged to even exist and gets little negative attention. It’s funny how people who want to deflect away from discussing the Atlantic slave trade by bringing up modern slavery always mention countries like Libya, and not the US. I imagine it’s worse in Libya, but “why focus on the US’s past when slavery is alive and well here in the present” would hit a lot closer to home and would probably be a lot easier to fix.
  - mrguyorama 2y ago
    Unfortunately a significant fraction of the US is entirely okay with people (mostly black people) being turned into indentured servants for our prison system. They have zero appetite for prison reform, justice reform, police reform, etc, and would much rather we all sit down and shut up.
    - HKH2 2y ago
      I am completely against private prisons. Providing there are legitimate reasons for someone to be in prison, how is it wrong to make them at least cover their own costs?
      - 2y ago