7 ms·

I went to school with some first generation Palestinians just 5-ish years ago. One of them had to miss an entire quarter because Israel just wouldn't allow him

by aprilthird2021 2y ago

I went to school with some first generation Palestinians just 5-ish years ago. One of them had to miss an entire quarter because Israel just wouldn't allow him to leave. He has never been back to Palestine since then because another detainment or missed visa problem, etc. would derail his career.

ignoramous 2y ago
> One of them had to miss an entire quarter because Israel just wouldn't allow him to leave Terrible. Even in the current ceasefire terms, there's an explicit provision to have Israel agree to let the injured leave for treatment to neighbouring countries and be allowed to come back to the Strip. Despite arguments to contrary, I can see why some claim it is an open-air prison.
- exe34 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - js8 2y ago
    If the prison is your homeland, it might be.
    - exe34 2y ago
      [flagged]
      - js8 2y ago
        You do know that half of the Gaza population have been born there, right?
        exe34 2y ago
        [flagged]
        SauciestGNU 2y ago
        Because sex is pleasurable and people have a drive to overcome adversity and lead the most fulfilling lives they can. Israel depriving the Gazan population of those opportunities is also a form of collective punishment and torture.
        exe34 2y ago
        [flagged]
        SauciestGNU 2y ago
        > can you tell me what happens when Palestinians have unfettered access to Israel? We literally don't know, because since the establishment of the state of Israel that has never been allowed to happen. > only if you're straight. if you're gay, the Palestinians will throw you off a building. Can you cite even one case of this actually happening?
        exe34 2y ago
        > We literally don't know, are you sure about that? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_suicide_attacks https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_suicide_at...
        SauciestGNU 2y ago
        These did not come at a time when Palestinians had unrestricted access to Israel, though. These happened while Israel was militarily occupying Gaza and the West Bank (yes, international institutions recognize Gaza has been occupied via blockade and control of resources, even though the IDF had "withdrawn").
        runarberg 2y ago
      - tradertef 2y ago
        who displaced them?
        exe34 2y ago
        [flagged]
        ignoramous 2y ago
        Early Zionists cooked reality so much that the study of what actually went on created its own class of historians. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Historians https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Historians Uncook your priors.
        exe34 2y ago
        21% of Israel's population is Arab - they have lived side by side with the Jews there for centuries. Why on earth would the Jews displace some of the Arabs and give full citizenship to the others if they just wanted the land? I hate your pseudo-intellectualism - "uncook your priors" indeed. You've roasted your priors and burnt your likelihood.
        ignoramous 2y ago
        Mandatory Palestine was way more than 21% Arab. And Jews did live side by side & were culturally assimilated, but those that migrated to Palestine/South Syria (after 1890s) didn't & had ambitions of an exclusive state for themselves. > Why on earth would the Jews displace some of the Arabs and give full citizenship to the others No, those that were allowed to remain ("the good Arabs") post 48 were under military rule for 2 decades. Those that now remain occupied after 67 are under hybrid IDF+PA rule. > hate your pseudo-intellectualism Intellectualism? You give me too much credit. Hate the "New Historians" who are all Israeli & speaking their truth.
        exe34 2y ago
        the Arabs who live in Israel today enjoy the same rights as the Jews. the ones in the post 67 are under hybrid rule precisely because the Oct 7 attacks are the sort of things that happen when the people of Gaza and the West Bank are given freedom.
  - prmoustache 2y ago
    Especially as the Gaza strip is not their homeland but where they have been displaced from their colonized homeland.
    - exe34 2y ago
      [flagged]
      - ignoramous 2y ago
        [flagged]
        exe34 2y ago
        [flagged]
        aprilthird2021 2y ago
        [flagged]
        dakom 2y ago
        [flagged]
        ignoramous 2y ago
        [flagged]
        dakom 2y ago
        [flagged]
        ignoramous 2y ago
        [flagged]
  - ignoramous 2y ago
    It is common for those seeking to engineer demographics to want to forcefully displace people. It is common for those who have dehumanised the other to take away their most basic rights, like freedom of movement. So yeah, super uncommon anywhere except in places like the tiny silver of land ruled by the most moral occupiers in the world.
- dotancohen 2y ago
  A UN delegate first referred to the Gaza strip as an open air prison in 1956, while still under Egyptian control. That aspect of Gaza was in place long before Israel had anything to do with the strip.
trimethylpurine 2y ago
Some part of this doesn't make sense. He couldn't leave from Gaza or Egypt? Why would he have needed Israel's permission?
- aprilthird2021 2y ago
  I must admit I'm not an expert in how it works. And as friends we never really talked about the details of such things. But you can read about the procedures here: https://www.nrc.no/globalassets/pdf/legal-opinions/legal_memo_travelling_abroad.pdf https://www.nrc.no/globalassets/pdf/legal-opinions/legal_mem... Based on that, he must have obtained a special permit to leave Palestine and fly to the US for higher education, but this had to be approved by Israel or he could not leave Palestine or transit through Ben Gurion Airport (remember the Palestinian's international airport was bombed into rubble a decade ago or so). One year they denied him for some Kafkaesque reason, I presume. By the time he sorted it out he had to arrange with the school to take a leave and start again the next quarter
  - trimethylpurine 2y ago
    So... Why not blame Egypt? You can answer if you know, but the question is really meant as a shrug towards bias and a plea for education in geography. Egypt has an airport just west of Gaza. They have a visa exclusive program for Palestinians. And that's not new. So based on the story, if you presume Israel was Kafkaesque then you must also presume that Egypt was at least as Kafkaesque if he was unable to leave from there. Or worse... he was unwilling. And yet, the story is about Israel for some reason. I'd ask why, but I presume to know the answer. Again, this is a shrug towards bias.
    - aprilthird2021 2y ago
      He didn't get his visa through Egypt. He got it through Israel, and when it was randomly denied, he probably couldn't apply for an Egyptian one in time to make it.
      - 2y ago

ignoramous 2y ago

> One of them had to miss an entire quarter because Israel just wouldn't allow him to leave Terrible. Even in the current ceasefire terms, there's an explicit provision to have Israel agree to let the injured leave for treatment to neighbouring countries and be allowed to come back to the Strip. Despite arguments to contrary, I can see why some claim it is an open-air prison.

exe34 2y ago
[flagged]
- js8 2y ago
  If the prison is your homeland, it might be.
  - exe34 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - js8 2y ago
      You do know that half of the Gaza population have been born there, right?
      - exe34 2y ago
        [flagged]
        SauciestGNU 2y ago
        Because sex is pleasurable and people have a drive to overcome adversity and lead the most fulfilling lives they can. Israel depriving the Gazan population of those opportunities is also a form of collective punishment and torture.
        exe34 2y ago
        [flagged]
        SauciestGNU 2y ago
        > can you tell me what happens when Palestinians have unfettered access to Israel? We literally don't know, because since the establishment of the state of Israel that has never been allowed to happen. > only if you're straight. if you're gay, the Palestinians will throw you off a building. Can you cite even one case of this actually happening?
        exe34 2y ago
        > We literally don't know, are you sure about that? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_suicide_attacks https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_suicide_at...
        SauciestGNU 2y ago
        These did not come at a time when Palestinians had unrestricted access to Israel, though. These happened while Israel was militarily occupying Gaza and the West Bank (yes, international institutions recognize Gaza has been occupied via blockade and control of resources, even though the IDF had "withdrawn").
        runarberg 2y ago
    - tradertef 2y ago
      who displaced them?
      - exe34 2y ago
        [flagged]
        ignoramous 2y ago
        Early Zionists cooked reality so much that the study of what actually went on created its own class of historians. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Historians https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Historians Uncook your priors.
        exe34 2y ago
        21% of Israel's population is Arab - they have lived side by side with the Jews there for centuries. Why on earth would the Jews displace some of the Arabs and give full citizenship to the others if they just wanted the land? I hate your pseudo-intellectualism - "uncook your priors" indeed. You've roasted your priors and burnt your likelihood.
        ignoramous 2y ago
        Mandatory Palestine was way more than 21% Arab. And Jews did live side by side & were culturally assimilated, but those that migrated to Palestine/South Syria (after 1890s) didn't & had ambitions of an exclusive state for themselves. > Why on earth would the Jews displace some of the Arabs and give full citizenship to the others No, those that were allowed to remain ("the good Arabs") post 48 were under military rule for 2 decades. Those that now remain occupied after 67 are under hybrid IDF+PA rule. > hate your pseudo-intellectualism Intellectualism? You give me too much credit. Hate the "New Historians" who are all Israeli & speaking their truth.
        exe34 2y ago
        the Arabs who live in Israel today enjoy the same rights as the Jews. the ones in the post 67 are under hybrid rule precisely because the Oct 7 attacks are the sort of things that happen when the people of Gaza and the West Bank are given freedom.
- prmoustache 2y ago
  Especially as the Gaza strip is not their homeland but where they have been displaced from their colonized homeland.
  - exe34 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - ignoramous 2y ago
      [flagged]
      - exe34 2y ago
        [flagged]
        aprilthird2021 2y ago
        [flagged]
        dakom 2y ago
        [flagged]
        ignoramous 2y ago
        [flagged]
        dakom 2y ago
        [flagged]
        ignoramous 2y ago
        [flagged]
- ignoramous 2y ago
  It is common for those seeking to engineer demographics to want to forcefully displace people. It is common for those who have dehumanised the other to take away their most basic rights, like freedom of movement. So yeah, super uncommon anywhere except in places like the tiny silver of land ruled by the most moral occupiers in the world.
dotancohen 2y ago
A UN delegate first referred to the Gaza strip as an open air prison in 1956, while still under Egyptian control. That aspect of Gaza was in place long before Israel had anything to do with the strip.

trimethylpurine 2y ago

Some part of this doesn't make sense. He couldn't leave from Gaza or Egypt? Why would he have needed Israel's permission?

aprilthird2021 2y ago
I must admit I'm not an expert in how it works. And as friends we never really talked about the details of such things. But you can read about the procedures here: https://www.nrc.no/globalassets/pdf/legal-opinions/legal_memo_travelling_abroad.pdf https://www.nrc.no/globalassets/pdf/legal-opinions/legal_mem... Based on that, he must have obtained a special permit to leave Palestine and fly to the US for higher education, but this had to be approved by Israel or he could not leave Palestine or transit through Ben Gurion Airport (remember the Palestinian's international airport was bombed into rubble a decade ago or so). One year they denied him for some Kafkaesque reason, I presume. By the time he sorted it out he had to arrange with the school to take a leave and start again the next quarter
- trimethylpurine 2y ago
  So... Why not blame Egypt? You can answer if you know, but the question is really meant as a shrug towards bias and a plea for education in geography. Egypt has an airport just west of Gaza. They have a visa exclusive program for Palestinians. And that's not new. So based on the story, if you presume Israel was Kafkaesque then you must also presume that Egypt was at least as Kafkaesque if he was unable to leave from there. Or worse... he was unwilling. And yet, the story is about Israel for some reason. I'd ask why, but I presume to know the answer. Again, this is a shrug towards bias.
  - aprilthird2021 2y ago
    He didn't get his visa through Egypt. He got it through Israel, and when it was randomly denied, he probably couldn't apply for an Egyptian one in time to make it.
    - 2y ago