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> It’s horrible. But that’s war. Was the holocaust just war? Was the Warsaw ghetto uprising a war against Germany? It takes 2 armies to have a war, not a colo

> It’s horrible. But that’s war. Was the holocaust just war? Was the Warsaw ghetto uprising a war against Germany? It takes 2 armies to have a war, not a colonized people locked up in an open air prison fighting against a sophisticated army, armed by one of the world's superpower, in flip flops while the colonizing army can't even bother to focus on the fighters and so just drops 2000 pound bunker bombs on entire families over and over again for 15 months straight. South Africa has compiled dozens of pages documenting explicitly genocidal intent from high ranking israeli officials for its ICC case. "UN Special Committee finds Israel’s warfare methods in Gaza consistent with genocide, including use of starvation as weapon of war" https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2024/11/un-special-committee-finds-israels-warfare-methods-gaza-consistent-genocide https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2024/11/un-special-c...

JumpCrisscross 2y ago
> Was the holocaust just war? Was the Warsaw ghetto uprising a war against Germany? Not a fan of creating caste systems of victimhood. But in the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising, how many German civilians were killed? And I never said "just" war. I said it's war. Russia is killing children [1]. We've killed children [2]. There are multiple live conflicts in which children are being targeted and killed [3]. This isn't okay. My point is we haven't found a way to do modern war without this sort of collateral damage. > a colonized people locked up in an open air prison fighting against a sophisticated army, armed by one of the world's superpower Hamas is armed by Iran. Not a superpower, but certainly a capable regional power. Apartheid. Gandhi. Hell, M. L. K. It's a lot harder to claim the moral ground when both sides are committing war crimes. [1] https://www.cnn.com/2024/07/08/europe/ukraine-russian-strike-childrens-hospital-intl/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2024/07/08/europe/ukraine-russian-strike... [2] https://www.defense.gov/News/News-Stories/Article/Article/2780257/dod-august-29-strike-in-kabul-tragic-mistake-kills-10-civilians/ https://www.defense.gov/News/News-Stories/Article/Article/27... [2] https://www.unicef.org/press-releases/least-21-children-reported-killed-violence-sudans-west-darfur https://www.unicef.org/press-releases/least-21-children-repo...
- wqaatwt 2y ago
  > how many German civilians were killed? You’re saying that if they had the capacity to bomb Berlin and other German cities they would have decided not to do that?
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    > You’re saying that if they had the capacity to bomb Berlin and other German cities they would have decided not to do that? No, I'm saying if they had the capacity to bomb Berlin--and did--the moral case wouldn't be so clear cut. I'm also saying that if they had the capacity to bomb Berlin, they would have been well advised to focus first on strategic military or final solution targets.
    - wqaatwt 2y ago
      [flagged]
      - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
        > effectiveness of strategic bombing is of course debatable Strategic bombing doesn't work [1]. (By and large, it hardens the opposition.) It's debatable, but pretty much only as a theoretical concern as the history of pure (conventional) strategic bombing is a set of straight failures. > population of the Warsaw Ghetto had no such option. Therefore anything they could do to harm the Germany state would be fully justifiable If they had the option to bomb Berlin--particularly repeatedly--they probably also had a way out. (Not necessarily literally. But if you're able to manaeuvre in the enemy's capital, you have resources and thus options at your disposal.) [1] https://acoup.blog/2022/10/21/collections-strategic-airpower-101/ https://acoup.blog/2022/10/21/collections-strategic-airpower...
        wqaatwt 2y ago
        > Strategic bombing doesn't work Well.. that’s debatable and obviously not conclusive. Opportunity costs, not direct effectiveness is a bigger concern.
wqaatwt 2y ago
[flagged]

JumpCrisscross 2y ago

> Was the holocaust just war? Was the Warsaw ghetto uprising a war against Germany? Not a fan of creating caste systems of victimhood. But in the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising, how many German civilians were killed? And I never said "just" war. I said it's war. Russia is killing children [1]. We've killed children [2]. There are multiple live conflicts in which children are being targeted and killed [3]. This isn't okay. My point is we haven't found a way to do modern war without this sort of collateral damage. > a colonized people locked up in an open air prison fighting against a sophisticated army, armed by one of the world's superpower Hamas is armed by Iran. Not a superpower, but certainly a capable regional power. Apartheid. Gandhi. Hell, M. L. K. It's a lot harder to claim the moral ground when both sides are committing war crimes. [1] https://www.cnn.com/2024/07/08/europe/ukraine-russian-strike-childrens-hospital-intl/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2024/07/08/europe/ukraine-russian-strike... [2] https://www.defense.gov/News/News-Stories/Article/Article/2780257/dod-august-29-strike-in-kabul-tragic-mistake-kills-10-civilians/ https://www.defense.gov/News/News-Stories/Article/Article/27... [2] https://www.unicef.org/press-releases/least-21-children-reported-killed-violence-sudans-west-darfur https://www.unicef.org/press-releases/least-21-children-repo...

wqaatwt 2y ago
> how many German civilians were killed? You’re saying that if they had the capacity to bomb Berlin and other German cities they would have decided not to do that?
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > You’re saying that if they had the capacity to bomb Berlin and other German cities they would have decided not to do that? No, I'm saying if they had the capacity to bomb Berlin--and did--the moral case wouldn't be so clear cut. I'm also saying that if they had the capacity to bomb Berlin, they would have been well advised to focus first on strategic military or final solution targets.
  - wqaatwt 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
      > effectiveness of strategic bombing is of course debatable Strategic bombing doesn't work [1]. (By and large, it hardens the opposition.) It's debatable, but pretty much only as a theoretical concern as the history of pure (conventional) strategic bombing is a set of straight failures. > population of the Warsaw Ghetto had no such option. Therefore anything they could do to harm the Germany state would be fully justifiable If they had the option to bomb Berlin--particularly repeatedly--they probably also had a way out. (Not necessarily literally. But if you're able to manaeuvre in the enemy's capital, you have resources and thus options at your disposal.) [1] https://acoup.blog/2022/10/21/collections-strategic-airpower-101/ https://acoup.blog/2022/10/21/collections-strategic-airpower...
      - wqaatwt 2y ago
        > Strategic bombing doesn't work Well.. that’s debatable and obviously not conclusive. Opportunity costs, not direct effectiveness is a bigger concern.

wqaatwt 2y ago

[flagged]