5 ms·

Why would this be useful over of DuckDb? (earnest question)

chatmasta 2y ago
They’re similar, but DuckDb is more of a batteries-included database whereas DataFusion is an embeddable query engine. You can use DuckDb in embedded-ish scenarios, but it’s not primarily targeting that use case. To put it another way, DataFusion is sometimes described as “the LLVM of databases.” Another difference is that DuckDb is written in C++ whereas DataFusion is in Rust, so all the usual memory-safety and performance arguments apply. In fact DataFusion has recently overtaken DuckDb in Clickbench results after a community push last year to optimize its performance.
- jitl 2y ago
  We tried both about 8 months ago, at the time DuckDB’s Node driver leaked memory and segfaulted, DataFusion was missing some features we wanted. But they are both improving rapidly.
- geysersam 2y ago
  > DataFusion has recently overtaken DuckDb in Clickbench results after a community push last year Really? I don't see it near the top. [CH benchmarks](https://benchmark.clickhouse.com/#eyjzexn0zw0ionsiqwxsb3leqii6zmfsc2usikfsbg95reigkhr1bmvkksi6zmfsc2usikf0agvuysaocgfydgl0aw9uzwqpijpmywxzzswiqxrozw5hich https://benchmark.clickhouse.com/#eyjzexn0zw0ionsiqwxsb3leqi...)
  - kalendos 2y ago
    You might need to adjust filters to do an apple to apple comparison. https://benchmark.clickhouse.com/#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 https://benchmark.clickhouse.com/#eyJzeXN0ZW0iOnsiQWxsb3lEQi...
    - riku_iki 2y ago
      Not clear why someone need to give up on native duckdb format if it is much faster.
      - chatmasta 2y ago
        Because it means you need to keep another copy of your data in a special format just for DuckDb. The point of Parquet is that it’s an open format queryable by multiple tools. You don’t need to wait to load every table into a new format, you don’t need to retain multiple copies, and you don’t need to keep them in sync. If DuckDb is the only query engine in your analytics stack, then it makes sense to use its specialized format. But that’s not the typical Lakehouse use case.
        riku_iki 2y ago
        > But that’s not the typical Lakehouse use case. that benchmark is also not typical lakehouse use case, since all data is hosted locally, so they don't test significant component of the stack.
        chatmasta 2y ago
        Yeah, that’s one of many issues with Clickbench. It’s also one table so it can’t test joins. TPC-H is okay but not Lakehouse specific. I’m not aware of any benchmarks that specifically test performance of engines under common setups like external storage or scalable compute. It would be hard to design one that’s easily reproducible. (And in fairness to Clickbench, it’s intentionally simple for that exact reason - to generate a baseline score for any query engine that can query tabular data).
  - alamb 2y ago
    Specifically, DataFusion is faster when querying parquet directly. Most of the leaderboard of ClickBench is for database specific file formats (that you first have to load the data into)
alamb 2y ago
I think you would pick DataFusion over DuckDB if you want to customize it substantially. Not just with user defined functions (which are quite easy to write in DataFusion and are very fast), but things like * custom file formats (e.g. Spiral or Lance) * custom query languages / sql dialects * custom catalogs (e.g. other than a local file or prebuilt duckdb connectors) * custom indexes (read only parts of parquet files based on extra information you store) * etc. If you are looking for the nicest "run SQL on local files" experience, DuckDB is pretty hard to beat Disclaimer: I am the PMC chair of DataFusion There are some other interesting FAQs here too: https://datafusion.apache.org/user-guide/faq.html https://datafusion.apache.org/user-guide/faq.html

They’re similar, but DuckDb is more of a batteries-included database whereas DataFusion is an embeddable query engine. You can use DuckDb in embedded-ish scenarios, but it’s not primarily targeting that use case. To put it another way, DataFusion is sometimes described as “the LLVM of databases.” Another difference is that DuckDb is written in C++ whereas DataFusion is in Rust, so all the usual memory-safety and performance arguments apply. In fact DataFusion has recently overtaken DuckDb in Clickbench results after a community push last year to optimize its performance.

jitl 2y ago
We tried both about 8 months ago, at the time DuckDB’s Node driver leaked memory and segfaulted, DataFusion was missing some features we wanted. But they are both improving rapidly.
geysersam 2y ago
> DataFusion has recently overtaken DuckDb in Clickbench results after a community push last year Really? I don't see it near the top. [CH benchmarks](https://benchmark.clickhouse.com/#eyjzexn0zw0ionsiqwxsb3leqii6zmfsc2usikfsbg95reigkhr1bmvkksi6zmfsc2usikf0agvuysaocgfydgl0aw9uzwqpijpmywxzzswiqxrozw5hich https://benchmark.clickhouse.com/#eyjzexn0zw0ionsiqwxsb3leqi...)
- kalendos 2y ago
  You might need to adjust filters to do an apple to apple comparison. https://benchmark.clickhouse.com/#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 https://benchmark.clickhouse.com/#eyJzeXN0ZW0iOnsiQWxsb3lEQi...
  - riku_iki 2y ago
    Not clear why someone need to give up on native duckdb format if it is much faster.
    - chatmasta 2y ago
      Because it means you need to keep another copy of your data in a special format just for DuckDb. The point of Parquet is that it’s an open format queryable by multiple tools. You don’t need to wait to load every table into a new format, you don’t need to retain multiple copies, and you don’t need to keep them in sync. If DuckDb is the only query engine in your analytics stack, then it makes sense to use its specialized format. But that’s not the typical Lakehouse use case.
      - riku_iki 2y ago
        > But that’s not the typical Lakehouse use case. that benchmark is also not typical lakehouse use case, since all data is hosted locally, so they don't test significant component of the stack.
        chatmasta 2y ago
        Yeah, that’s one of many issues with Clickbench. It’s also one table so it can’t test joins. TPC-H is okay but not Lakehouse specific. I’m not aware of any benchmarks that specifically test performance of engines under common setups like external storage or scalable compute. It would be hard to design one that’s easily reproducible. (And in fairness to Clickbench, it’s intentionally simple for that exact reason - to generate a baseline score for any query engine that can query tabular data).
- alamb 2y ago
  Specifically, DataFusion is faster when querying parquet directly. Most of the leaderboard of ClickBench is for database specific file formats (that you first have to load the data into)

alamb 2y ago

I think you would pick DataFusion over DuckDB if you want to customize it substantially. Not just with user defined functions (which are quite easy to write in DataFusion and are very fast), but things like * custom file formats (e.g. Spiral or Lance) * custom query languages / sql dialects * custom catalogs (e.g. other than a local file or prebuilt duckdb connectors) * custom indexes (read only parts of parquet files based on extra information you store) * etc. If you are looking for the nicest "run SQL on local files" experience, DuckDB is pretty hard to beat Disclaimer: I am the PMC chair of DataFusion There are some other interesting FAQs here too: https://datafusion.apache.org/user-guide/faq.html https://datafusion.apache.org/user-guide/faq.html