5 ms·

Why? I think most of us can recognize they're not necessarily good by our standards, so they're not the good guys. But they are the ones resisting a genocidal a

by Thiez 2y ago

Why? I think most of us can recognize they're not necessarily good by our standards, so they're not the good guys. But they are the ones resisting a genocidal apartheid colonialist state, so they're at least better than the Israelis. So if we call Israel the bad guys, that leaves Hamas as... the guys.

wbl 2y ago
They murdered 1,000 civilians in cold blood. They raped, kidnapped and sacked indiscriminately. Arab, Jew, Druze, Thai guest worker. Then they rained missiles indiscriminately on towns and had the gall to complain about getting bombed and besiged. Let's be clear here: The IDF may have committed war crimes by not being careful about targeting or cancelling convoys that had contraband. Hamas deliberately targets civilians and always has, murdering them in cafes, shuls, buses, community centers and hotels around the world .
- 8note 2y ago
  [flagged]
- stefantalpalaru 2y ago
  [dead]
- spencerflem 2y ago
  Not pro Hamas here- but the IDF has done Far Far Far Far more than you say. They have deliberately targeted hospitals without evidence, destroyed 2/3rds !! Of all buildings, residential or not, displaced nearly the entire population, block much of the incoming aid, have a terrible record with regard to torture and abuse of the hostages they take, have killed clearly marked journalists, have permanently settled Palestinian land and so on and so on. To the point that Holocaust Scholars and Humanitarian Organizations are willing to call the entire thing a Genocide. Do you remember when the IDF shot their own hostages, unarmed, carrying a white flag, because they thought they were Palestinian? They do not care about civilian lives any more than militant ones.
  - tomalbrc 2y ago
    At which point is this whataboutism
    - spencerflem 2y ago
      This is not whataboutism, and the IDF has our direct and unconditional support to conduct a genocide. They should not.
- kelthuzad 2y ago
  The atrocity propaganda of "mass rape" has already been refuted and "1000" civilians is not true either: "A total of 630 hospitalized casualties (277 civilians and 353 soldiers) suffered from gunshot wounds (90%), explosion-related wounds (19%), and multiple injury mechanisms (16%)." [The Israel National Trauma Registry (INTR), which aggregates data from all 7 level-I trauma centers (TCs) and 16 level-II TCs in Israel, was the data source for this study] You're even labelling IDF soldiers as "civilians" and including the IDF's kill count of its own people in there. https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-07-07/ty-article-magazine/.premium/idf-ordered-hannibal-directive-on-october-7-to-prevent-hamas-taking-soldiers-captive/ https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-07-07/ty-article-ma... >The IDF may have committed war crimes by not being careful about targeting or cancelling convoys that had contraband "May have" is the understatement of the century, the modus operandi of the IDF is based on warcrimes that amounted to Genocide[1]. And the notion that the IDF supposedly doesn't intentionally target civilians is pure denial: "The Biden administration has quietly continued to supply arms to Israel. Last week, however, President Joe Biden publicly acknowledged that Israel was losing international legitimacy for what he called its “indiscriminate bombing.”[2], "Israel/OPT: New evidence of unlawful Israeli attacks in Gaza causing mass civilian casualties amid real risk of genocide"[3] "Damning evidence of war crimes as Israeli attacks wipe out entire families in Gaza"[4] This is only a fraction of the evidence proving that Israel targets civilians intentionally and most of these are from months ago. Israel's brazen murder of civilians became even more unhinged after that. [1] https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2024/11/un-special-committee-finds-israels-warfare-methods-gaza-consistent-genocide https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2024/11/un-special-c... [2] https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/israels-military-campaign-in-gaza-is-among-the-most-destructive-in-history-experts-say https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/israels-military-campaign... [3] https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2024/02/israel-opt-new-evidence-of-unlawful-israeli-attacks-in-gaza-causing-mass-civilian-casualties-amid-real-risk-of-genocide/ https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2024/02/israel-opt-ne... [4] https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2023/10/damning-evidence-of-war-crimes-as-israeli-attacks-wipe-out-entire-families-in-gaza/ https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2023/10/damning-evide...
  - jazzyjackson 2y ago
    [flagged]
- cma 2y ago
  The mass coordinated rape campaign narrative has been widely debunked.
  - wbl 2y ago
    [flagged]
LeafItAlone 2y ago
I ask because it’s not something you generally see. Even your statement added an ellipsis as punctuation. But no matter; the parent comment was updated and they clarified their opinion by adding “good”.
UltraSane 2y ago
"But they are the ones resisting a genocidal apartheid colonialist state," How exactly does killing over 200 people at a concert and parading the body of a woman like a hunting trophy and killing the parents of a 6 month old baby and then abducting that baby accomplish this?
hirvi74 2y ago
[flagged]
Sabinus 2y ago
[flagged]
- defrost 2y ago
  > Also Israel is not genocidal or apartheid (see: the Arab populations that live in Israel with Israeli citizenship) Did this argument work for White Rule South Africa? It wasn't an apartheid state as non whites had South African citizenship? The currrent AI view on your assertion is that: Arab citizens of Israel have the same legal rights as other Israeli citizens, but they often face discrimination. They are eligible to vote, hold jobs, and live anywhere in Israel. However, they experience socioeconomic disadvantages and discrimination in social and political life. That kind of zeitgeist summary is drawn from multiple sources, eg: https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/what-know-about-arab-citizens-israel https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/what-know-about-arab-citize... Arab citizens have the same legal rights as Jewish Israelis, but they tend to live in poorer cities, have less formal education, and face other challenges that some experts attribute to structural discrimination. Arab political parties have long struggled to gain representation in Israel’s government, and many Arabs have expressed alarm at the leadership of right-wing Jewish politicians, including Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.

by Thiez 2y ago

wbl 2y ago

They murdered 1,000 civilians in cold blood. They raped, kidnapped and sacked indiscriminately. Arab, Jew, Druze, Thai guest worker. Then they rained missiles indiscriminately on towns and had the gall to complain about getting bombed and besiged. Let's be clear here: The IDF may have committed war crimes by not being careful about targeting or cancelling convoys that had contraband. Hamas deliberately targets civilians and always has, murdering them in cafes, shuls, buses, community centers and hotels around the world .

8note 2y ago
[flagged]
stefantalpalaru 2y ago
[dead]
spencerflem 2y ago
Not pro Hamas here- but the IDF has done Far Far Far Far more than you say. They have deliberately targeted hospitals without evidence, destroyed 2/3rds !! Of all buildings, residential or not, displaced nearly the entire population, block much of the incoming aid, have a terrible record with regard to torture and abuse of the hostages they take, have killed clearly marked journalists, have permanently settled Palestinian land and so on and so on. To the point that Holocaust Scholars and Humanitarian Organizations are willing to call the entire thing a Genocide. Do you remember when the IDF shot their own hostages, unarmed, carrying a white flag, because they thought they were Palestinian? They do not care about civilian lives any more than militant ones.
- tomalbrc 2y ago
  At which point is this whataboutism
  - spencerflem 2y ago
    This is not whataboutism, and the IDF has our direct and unconditional support to conduct a genocide. They should not.
kelthuzad 2y ago
The atrocity propaganda of "mass rape" has already been refuted and "1000" civilians is not true either: "A total of 630 hospitalized casualties (277 civilians and 353 soldiers) suffered from gunshot wounds (90%), explosion-related wounds (19%), and multiple injury mechanisms (16%)." [The Israel National Trauma Registry (INTR), which aggregates data from all 7 level-I trauma centers (TCs) and 16 level-II TCs in Israel, was the data source for this study] You're even labelling IDF soldiers as "civilians" and including the IDF's kill count of its own people in there. https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-07-07/ty-article-magazine/.premium/idf-ordered-hannibal-directive-on-october-7-to-prevent-hamas-taking-soldiers-captive/ https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-07-07/ty-article-ma... >The IDF may have committed war crimes by not being careful about targeting or cancelling convoys that had contraband "May have" is the understatement of the century, the modus operandi of the IDF is based on warcrimes that amounted to Genocide[1]. And the notion that the IDF supposedly doesn't intentionally target civilians is pure denial: "The Biden administration has quietly continued to supply arms to Israel. Last week, however, President Joe Biden publicly acknowledged that Israel was losing international legitimacy for what he called its “indiscriminate bombing.”[2], "Israel/OPT: New evidence of unlawful Israeli attacks in Gaza causing mass civilian casualties amid real risk of genocide"[3] "Damning evidence of war crimes as Israeli attacks wipe out entire families in Gaza"[4] This is only a fraction of the evidence proving that Israel targets civilians intentionally and most of these are from months ago. Israel's brazen murder of civilians became even more unhinged after that. [1] https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2024/11/un-special-committee-finds-israels-warfare-methods-gaza-consistent-genocide https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2024/11/un-special-c... [2] https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/israels-military-campaign-in-gaza-is-among-the-most-destructive-in-history-experts-say https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/israels-military-campaign... [3] https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2024/02/israel-opt-new-evidence-of-unlawful-israeli-attacks-in-gaza-causing-mass-civilian-casualties-amid-real-risk-of-genocide/ https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2024/02/israel-opt-ne... [4] https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2023/10/damning-evidence-of-war-crimes-as-israeli-attacks-wipe-out-entire-families-in-gaza/ https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2023/10/damning-evide...
- jazzyjackson 2y ago
  [flagged]
cma 2y ago
The mass coordinated rape campaign narrative has been widely debunked.
- wbl 2y ago
  [flagged]

LeafItAlone 2y ago

I ask because it’s not something you generally see. Even your statement added an ellipsis as punctuation. But no matter; the parent comment was updated and they clarified their opinion by adding “good”.

UltraSane 2y ago

"But they are the ones resisting a genocidal apartheid colonialist state," How exactly does killing over 200 people at a concert and parading the body of a woman like a hunting trophy and killing the parents of a 6 month old baby and then abducting that baby accomplish this?

hirvi74 2y ago

[flagged]

Sabinus 2y ago

[flagged]

defrost 2y ago
> Also Israel is not genocidal or apartheid (see: the Arab populations that live in Israel with Israeli citizenship) Did this argument work for White Rule South Africa? It wasn't an apartheid state as non whites had South African citizenship? The currrent AI view on your assertion is that: Arab citizens of Israel have the same legal rights as other Israeli citizens, but they often face discrimination. They are eligible to vote, hold jobs, and live anywhere in Israel. However, they experience socioeconomic disadvantages and discrimination in social and political life. That kind of zeitgeist summary is drawn from multiple sources, eg: https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/what-know-about-arab-citizens-israel https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/what-know-about-arab-citize... Arab citizens have the same legal rights as Jewish Israelis, but they tend to live in poorer cities, have less formal education, and face other challenges that some experts attribute to structural discrimination. Arab political parties have long struggled to gain representation in Israel’s government, and many Arabs have expressed alarm at the leadership of right-wing Jewish politicians, including Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.