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Hamas has been considerably weakened. Their arsenal of rockets and weapons is depleted. At the beginning of the war thousands of rockets were being shot into Is

Hamas has been considerably weakened. Their arsenal of rockets and weapons is depleted. At the beginning of the war thousands of rockets were being shot into Israel and now there are very few and the ones that are are quite crude. Hezbollah entered the war immediately and said the only way they would exit is if Hamas exists. Israel retaliated, killed their leader, decimated their forces, and negotiated a ceasefire that got Hezbollah to back off on their original terms. Lebanon just elected an anti-Hezbollah President. During all of this, Assad was deposed. Israel's main adversary is Iran. They are the ones who fund and supply Hamas and Hezbollah, and were the key ally of Assad. They attacked Israel multiple times during the war and Israel responded in kind, the assesments seem to be that Israel's responses were quite strong. So prior to October 7, Iran had strong proxies and allies all over the region. They are now either in shambles or deposed. The goal of the war for Israel is to prevent another October 7th style attack from occuring. I'd say they have made significant steps towards accomplishing that from a military perspective.

verdverm 2y ago
Israel has likely also created multiple generations of anger and hate against themselves. They may have reduced the likelihood of another Oct 7 in the near term, but 50 years is not something I would count on
- flumpcakes 2y ago
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  - xg15 2y ago
    And yet there is the speech by Jordan's foreign minister who makes clear that the Arab states are interested in relations with Israel - as a normal state and as part of a two-state solution with mutual sovereignty, but not with a state that behaves as if they had some divine right to dominate the entire region. https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/2024-10-02/ty-article-opinion/.premium/jordans-foreign-minister-told-israelis-and-inconvenient-truth/00000192-4dc3-d2cc-a5d7-edff907e0000 https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/2024-10-02/ty-article-opinio...
    - whatshisface 2y ago
      Interested? Most (functional) countries in the middle east are US-aligned trading partners. Jordan, SA, Turkey, Egypt, Kuwait, Iraq...
      - xg15 2y ago
        Good question. I think there was a quote by some Saudi official that the government doesn't care a lot about the issue and would prefer the normalization agreement to go through, but the population does - and sidelining the Palestinian issue would risk domestic stability. I could imagine this is the sentiment in many of the countries there.
  - jfactorial 2y ago
    > Western media is also very anti-Israeli Taking nothing away from your personal local experiences wherever you are, I don't think this is a generally true statement. https://institute.aljazeera.net/en/ajr/article/2871 https://institute.aljazeera.net/en/ajr/article/2871 https://www.protect-journalists.com/ https://www.protect-journalists.com/
    - flumpcakes 2y ago
      Al Jazeera is far from unbiased. _Some_ of these so-called "Journalists" were terrorists and/or Hamas propagandists. That fact seems to escape the western press. All reporting I have seen puts the same level of credibility between Israeli and Hamas statements - one being from an elected democracy with rules based order and the other a literal genocidal terrorist organisation. I don't see the retractions given the same exposure as the claims when it turns out Hamas have lied. I don't see the atrocities Hamas commits get air time. This is just my experience over the last 16 months. I thought it was absolutely crazy that within hours of Oct 7th I was seeing in the news how Israel should be blamed or are responsible. This weird rewriting of history in real time doesn't seem to have been let up since. It feels like I am taking crazy pills with the amount of vehement anti-Israeli diatribe that comes out of what I thought were sensible people or unbiased institutions.
      - BriggyDwiggs42 2y ago
        People are pointing to a very long history of misbehavior on the part of Israel when they say that. Something along the lines of “hamas and their attack was to be expected given the circumstances israel, the party with all the decisionmaking power, deliberately cultivated over decades.”
  - jedimind 2y ago
    As usual, every accusation is a confession. Only Zionists can commit a genocide and simultaneously project their own crimes onto others. Amnesty International investigation concludes Israel is committing genocide against Palestinians in Gaza: https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2024/12/amnesty-international-concludes-israel-is-committing-genocide-against-palestinians-in-gaza/ https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2024/12/amnesty-inter... Press releases UN body, UN Special Committee finds Israel’s warfare methods in Gaza consistent with genocide, including use of starvation as weapon of war: https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2024/11/un-special-committee-finds-israels-warfare-methods-gaza-consistent-genocide https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2024/11/un-special-c...
    - flumpcakes 2y ago
      [flagged]
- breppp 2y ago
  Probably the most efficient way of creating multiple generations of anger and hate is letting a radical terrorist movement control 2 million people, which can completely mold the education curriculum and free to draft anyone to their quasi-army So whatever it has done, it cannot possibly be worse than pre-war
  - whatshisface 2y ago
    What could a radical terrorist organization possibily tell Gazans about what happened to their parents that sounds worse than the truth?
    - IncreasePosts 2y ago
      [flagged]
      - whatshisface 2y ago
        Right but the truth is that they were just standing in the wrong building or couldn't go without food for long enough, they're going to find out something that simple no matter who runs the schools.
    - breppp 2y ago
      [flagged]
      - jedimind 2y ago
        >something that would cause civilians on oct 7 join en masse a fest of rape there is 0 evidence for "mass rape" on oct7, this has been debunked. Every one of your accusations is a confession: "Israel: UN experts appalled by reported human rights violations against Palestinian women and girls." “We are particularly distressed by reports that Palestinian women and girls in detention have also been subjected to multiple forms of sexual assault, such as being stripped naked and searched by male Israeli army officers. At least two female Palestinian detainees were reportedly raped while others were reportedly threatened with rape and sexual violence,” the experts said. They also noted that photos of female detainees in degrading circumstances were also reportedly taken by the Israeli army and uploaded online." https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2024/02/israelopt-un-experts-appalled-reported-human-rights-violations-against https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2024/02/israelopt-un...
- cbeach 2y ago
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  - jfactorial 2y ago
    Which nation's constitution is built upon the annihilation of Israel?
    - cbeach 2y ago
      It’s a fair point if you disagree, like I do, that Hamas’s Palestine is a nation. But the Hamas Charter makes alarming reading: https://irp.fas.org/world/para/docs/880818a.htm https://irp.fas.org/world/para/docs/880818a.htm Some excerpts: 'The Day of Judgment will not come about until Moslems fight Jews and kill them. Then, the Jews will hide behind rocks and trees, and the rocks and trees will cry out: 'O Moslem, there is a Jew hiding behind me, come and kill him.' (Article 7) 'The land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf [Holy Possession] consecrated for future Moslem generations until Judgment Day. No one can renounce it or any part, or abandon it or any part of it.' (Article 11) 'Palestine is an Islamic land... Since this is the case, the Liberation of Palestine is an individual duty for every Moslem wherever he may be.' (Article 13) - - - Hamas are genocidal religious supremacists. Just because they haven’t succeeded in destroying the Jewish state doesn’t mean that they’re the peaceful victims in all of this. If they had access to weapons of mass destruction they would use them without a second thought. Read the Charter
      - defrost 2y ago
        > But the Hamas Charter makes alarming reading: That happens with worst possible out of context translations. There's a lot written about that charter, the original and translations, and various reasons why Hamas feel that Palestinians must defend themselves from Israelis. As I understand it that feeling is mirrored, both sides having more in common than they might admit.
        cbeach 2y ago
        Could you please translate Article 7 for me so I can understand your take on it?
- IncreasePosts 2y ago
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- Aunche 2y ago
  There are multiple generations of hate in the West Bank as well. Israel isn't threaten by them as much as they have much more difficulty accumulating weapons.
  - kamikazeturtles 2y ago
    Are the Palestinians in the West Bank supposed to love their armed illegal settler neighbors? It feels like almost ever day that I see a video of a Palestinian's home in the West Bank being demolished or a Palestinian family being harassed by armed settlers
    - pgalvin 2y ago
      I think you might have misinterpreted the comment above you. I took it to mean that there are a set of circumstances unique to Gaza that cause greater conflict between it and Israel than between the West Bank and Israel, which is not sufficiently explained by generational trauma alone.
- jncfhnb 2y ago
  This is the narrative that the extremists want to push, but it’s hardly the truth. Hamas was not some grassroots movement of frustrated Palestinians. It was an Iranian proxy force masterminded, funded, supplied, trained, and instructed by Iran. There are certainly many angry Palestinians before and after but this is foreign meddling through and through. Hamas would not exist in this form and have done the things that it did otherwise.
- robertwt7 2y ago
  I don't understand how is this different to all wars? back then when the Nazis started the war and we had to declare war against them. Or when we nuked 2 cities of Japan, were we also afraid that we will create multiple generations of anger and hate? how is this different? I'm not comparing Israel or Palestine to Nazi, it's just a bitter fact that war always create anger and hate. Something had to be done though?
  - verdverm 2y ago
    After WW2, (west) Germany was given massive support. We helped to rebuild the country. Same for Japan. Will we (and/or Israel) do the same for Gaza? What about Lebanon and Syria? We certainly failed at this in Iraq and Afghanistan, did we learn any lessons? Will the incoming US Administration fumble this opportunity? As Stephen Kotkin likes to say "You can win the war and lose the peace. You can also lose the war and win the peace" What comes after the war is as important, maybe more so, than the war itself
    - Tainnor 2y ago
      If you take the analogy further, Germany also completely surrendered after WWII and came up with a new, democratic government. In the meantime, 12-16 millions of Germans were driven out of their homes in East Prussia never to return. It wasn't until 1990 that the (now reunited) Germany finally renounced all claims to their lost territory.
- foxglacier 2y ago
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  - khaledh 2y ago
    You've got your history mixed up. It was the Christians who persecuted Jews throughout history, culminating in the holocaust by, guess who, Christians. Jews thrived under Muslim rule during the middle ages.
    - foxglacier 2y ago
      That's ancient history. The reality today is widespread anti-Semitism among Muslims and it's backed by Mohammed. Up till the holocaust, basically everyone hated the Jews. After that, Christians changed their mind and Muslims doubled down. The Palestinians collaborated with Hitler because he promised to help them get rid of their Jews too.
- firen777 2y ago
  > Israel has likely also created multiple generations of anger and hate against themselves Israel would have created multiple generations of emboldened anger and hate against themselves if they failed to respond to the massacre and mass kidnapping.
- spencerflem 2y ago
  In 50 years there will be no Palestine :c
- imgabe 2y ago
  They already hated Israel. So much that they attacked them and started this war in the first place. I doubt Israel is any worse off in terms of being hated than they were before the war. Hamas is not a rational actor. Their stated goal is to destroy Israel and kill every Jew. That's it. There is no scenario in which they are going to stop hating Israel. They don't care if every Palestinian also gets killed, if they get to destroy Israel it's worth it to them.
Cyph0n 2y ago
Perhaps weakened them from an equipment & infrastructure standpoint - along with the rest of Gaza - but not from a manpower standpoint: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2025-01-14/blinken-says-new-hamas-recruits-have-nearly-replaced-war-losses https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2025-01-14/blinken-s... The right way to fight an independence movement is to either do so from within/in a more targeted fashion, or barring that, meet their demands in some shape or form. Escalating the violence to the point where you’re destroying and displacing a people might settle things down in the short term, but the movement will not die, and will more than likely grow.
- halflife 2y ago
  The difference being that the new manpower has zero experience, is mostly kids and has no leadership. They reverted from a terrorist army, to an unorganized guerilla
  - Cyph0n 2y ago
    Sure, but they are at least motivated; anyone would be after witnessing their family, friends, or neighbors being wiped out by “precision” bombing.
    - halflife 2y ago
      No matter how motivated they are, without weapon and training they pose much less risk than an army
      - deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
- trhway 2y ago
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  - Cyph0n 2y ago
    Isis was never a legitimate independence movement. It was an expansionist terrorist group built on - quite literally - terror and anarchy. It worked for a while because the conditions were suitable in Syria and Iraq. A true anti-colonial, independence movement does not die that easily. Across history, freedom & returning to one’s land are the greatest motivators of all.
xg15 2y ago
Good points there. Still not sure how much the ouster of Assad was connected with the war (though no doubt that the weakening of Hezbollah must have contributed a lot to it) but it definitely changed the playing field.
- jncfhnb 2y ago
  It was 100% driven by the weakness in Hezbollah and Russia and Iran. There’s no doubt.
hmcq6 2y ago
[flagged]
- Jarwain 2y ago
  What was Oct 7th retaliation to, exactly?
  - jsheard 2y ago
    It's a mystery: https://cdn.statcdn.com/Infographic/images/normal/16516.jpeg https://cdn.statcdn.com/Infographic/images/normal/16516.jpeg None of this started on Oct 7th, the inciting incident was the founding of Israel itself on top of an existing state with an existing population who were violently expelled to make way. Everything else is just ongoing fallout from that.
    - dotancohen 2y ago
      What existing state was Israel founded on top of?
    - halflife 2y ago
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      - jedimind 2y ago
        >So the side that dies more has the moral high ground in your opinion? No the side that has been ethnically cleansed and colonized for 75+ years and made refugees in their own land have the moral high-ground. Palestinians have every right to resist to the evil they have been subjected to for almost a century. [1] https://web.archive.org/web/20231029055310/ojp.gov/ncjrs/virtual-library/abstracts/jewish-zionist-terrorism-and-establishment-israel https://web.archive.org/web/20231029055310/ojp.gov/ncjrs/vir... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irgun https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irgun [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_extremist_terrorism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_extremist_terrorism
FireBeyond 2y ago
> Israel's main adversary is Iran. They are the ones who fund and supply Hamas Well, Israel started and has been funding Hamas (I'm assuming, but who knows, that it stopped with this war) since the PLO/Arafat days to the tune of (at times tens of) millions a month.
- ars 2y ago
  That's not actually true. First Israel didn't fund them, they allowed others to fund them, second the Hamas back then was not the terrorists of today, they changed.
- golergka 2y ago
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  - hmcq6 2y ago
    > According to various reports, Netanyahu made a similar point at a Likud faction meeting in early 2019, when he was quoted as saying that those who oppose a Palestinian state should support the transfer of funds to Gaza, because maintaining the separation between the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank and Hamas in Gaza would prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state. https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up... You're literally doing revisionist history right now.
    - golergka 2y ago
      [flagged]
gitdowndirty 2y ago
Not only is Hamas weakened, Hamas' and Iran's supporter (China, Russia) has been severely weakened compared to the start of the conflict. Russia is in a stalemate in the Ukraine invasion, and has lost significant economic and military resources since. Russia also lost significant influence in Middle East, with the Assad regime fall. China is a severe economic decline. Also, China distanced itself from Iran, most likely due to wanting to not get sanctioned by US and Europe. https://thediplomat.com/2024/11/china-is-recalculating-its-middle-east-policy/ https://thediplomat.com/2024/11/china-is-recalculating-its-m....
forgotoldacc 2y ago
> During all of this, Assad was deposed. And we've yet to see whether this is a good thing. Gaddafi was seen as one of the most oppressive figures in the world during his lifetime. A few countries made it their goal to take him down and liberate the people of Libya. Gaddafi was killed, Libya was free, and the media celebrated. Just like with Syria, media coverage was down to basically zero about a month after that happened and everyone was left thinking it was a job well done. Turns out Libya has been worse than it ever was under Gaddafi. Having an oppressive albeit relatively secular leader who maintained a stable hold on the country turned out to be better than an oppressive non-secular mess.
myth_drannon 2y ago
The monsters are still there and already planning their next attempt in genocide. While the hostages coming back is a welcome news, none of war objectives were achieved. All the sacrifices were pointless if Israel exits Gaza and leaves Hamas in control (weakened is but still in control). Netanyahu again showed that he is a coward and easily pressured and has a pathological fear of a conflict. With thousands of monsters being released back into Gaza I fear the next 7 October will be worse.

verdverm 2y ago

Israel has likely also created multiple generations of anger and hate against themselves. They may have reduced the likelihood of another Oct 7 in the near term, but 50 years is not something I would count on

flumpcakes 2y ago
[flagged]
- xg15 2y ago
  And yet there is the speech by Jordan's foreign minister who makes clear that the Arab states are interested in relations with Israel - as a normal state and as part of a two-state solution with mutual sovereignty, but not with a state that behaves as if they had some divine right to dominate the entire region. https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/2024-10-02/ty-article-opinion/.premium/jordans-foreign-minister-told-israelis-and-inconvenient-truth/00000192-4dc3-d2cc-a5d7-edff907e0000 https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/2024-10-02/ty-article-opinio...
  - whatshisface 2y ago
    Interested? Most (functional) countries in the middle east are US-aligned trading partners. Jordan, SA, Turkey, Egypt, Kuwait, Iraq...
    - xg15 2y ago
      Good question. I think there was a quote by some Saudi official that the government doesn't care a lot about the issue and would prefer the normalization agreement to go through, but the population does - and sidelining the Palestinian issue would risk domestic stability. I could imagine this is the sentiment in many of the countries there.
- jfactorial 2y ago
  > Western media is also very anti-Israeli Taking nothing away from your personal local experiences wherever you are, I don't think this is a generally true statement. https://institute.aljazeera.net/en/ajr/article/2871 https://institute.aljazeera.net/en/ajr/article/2871 https://www.protect-journalists.com/ https://www.protect-journalists.com/
  - flumpcakes 2y ago
    Al Jazeera is far from unbiased. _Some_ of these so-called "Journalists" were terrorists and/or Hamas propagandists. That fact seems to escape the western press. All reporting I have seen puts the same level of credibility between Israeli and Hamas statements - one being from an elected democracy with rules based order and the other a literal genocidal terrorist organisation. I don't see the retractions given the same exposure as the claims when it turns out Hamas have lied. I don't see the atrocities Hamas commits get air time. This is just my experience over the last 16 months. I thought it was absolutely crazy that within hours of Oct 7th I was seeing in the news how Israel should be blamed or are responsible. This weird rewriting of history in real time doesn't seem to have been let up since. It feels like I am taking crazy pills with the amount of vehement anti-Israeli diatribe that comes out of what I thought were sensible people or unbiased institutions.
    - BriggyDwiggs42 2y ago
      People are pointing to a very long history of misbehavior on the part of Israel when they say that. Something along the lines of “hamas and their attack was to be expected given the circumstances israel, the party with all the decisionmaking power, deliberately cultivated over decades.”
- jedimind 2y ago
  As usual, every accusation is a confession. Only Zionists can commit a genocide and simultaneously project their own crimes onto others. Amnesty International investigation concludes Israel is committing genocide against Palestinians in Gaza: https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2024/12/amnesty-international-concludes-israel-is-committing-genocide-against-palestinians-in-gaza/ https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2024/12/amnesty-inter... Press releases UN body, UN Special Committee finds Israel’s warfare methods in Gaza consistent with genocide, including use of starvation as weapon of war: https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2024/11/un-special-committee-finds-israels-warfare-methods-gaza-consistent-genocide https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2024/11/un-special-c...
  - flumpcakes 2y ago
    [flagged]
breppp 2y ago
Probably the most efficient way of creating multiple generations of anger and hate is letting a radical terrorist movement control 2 million people, which can completely mold the education curriculum and free to draft anyone to their quasi-army So whatever it has done, it cannot possibly be worse than pre-war
- whatshisface 2y ago
  What could a radical terrorist organization possibily tell Gazans about what happened to their parents that sounds worse than the truth?
  - IncreasePosts 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - whatshisface 2y ago
      Right but the truth is that they were just standing in the wrong building or couldn't go without food for long enough, they're going to find out something that simple no matter who runs the schools.
  - breppp 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - jedimind 2y ago
      >something that would cause civilians on oct 7 join en masse a fest of rape there is 0 evidence for "mass rape" on oct7, this has been debunked. Every one of your accusations is a confession: "Israel: UN experts appalled by reported human rights violations against Palestinian women and girls." “We are particularly distressed by reports that Palestinian women and girls in detention have also been subjected to multiple forms of sexual assault, such as being stripped naked and searched by male Israeli army officers. At least two female Palestinian detainees were reportedly raped while others were reportedly threatened with rape and sexual violence,” the experts said. They also noted that photos of female detainees in degrading circumstances were also reportedly taken by the Israeli army and uploaded online." https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2024/02/israelopt-un-experts-appalled-reported-human-rights-violations-against https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2024/02/israelopt-un...
cbeach 2y ago
[flagged]
- jfactorial 2y ago
  Which nation's constitution is built upon the annihilation of Israel?
  - cbeach 2y ago
    It’s a fair point if you disagree, like I do, that Hamas’s Palestine is a nation. But the Hamas Charter makes alarming reading: https://irp.fas.org/world/para/docs/880818a.htm https://irp.fas.org/world/para/docs/880818a.htm Some excerpts: 'The Day of Judgment will not come about until Moslems fight Jews and kill them. Then, the Jews will hide behind rocks and trees, and the rocks and trees will cry out: 'O Moslem, there is a Jew hiding behind me, come and kill him.' (Article 7) 'The land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf [Holy Possession] consecrated for future Moslem generations until Judgment Day. No one can renounce it or any part, or abandon it or any part of it.' (Article 11) 'Palestine is an Islamic land... Since this is the case, the Liberation of Palestine is an individual duty for every Moslem wherever he may be.' (Article 13) - - - Hamas are genocidal religious supremacists. Just because they haven’t succeeded in destroying the Jewish state doesn’t mean that they’re the peaceful victims in all of this. If they had access to weapons of mass destruction they would use them without a second thought. Read the Charter
    - defrost 2y ago
      > But the Hamas Charter makes alarming reading: That happens with worst possible out of context translations. There's a lot written about that charter, the original and translations, and various reasons why Hamas feel that Palestinians must defend themselves from Israelis. As I understand it that feeling is mirrored, both sides having more in common than they might admit.
      - cbeach 2y ago
        Could you please translate Article 7 for me so I can understand your take on it?
IncreasePosts 2y ago
[flagged]
Aunche 2y ago
There are multiple generations of hate in the West Bank as well. Israel isn't threaten by them as much as they have much more difficulty accumulating weapons.
- kamikazeturtles 2y ago
  Are the Palestinians in the West Bank supposed to love their armed illegal settler neighbors? It feels like almost ever day that I see a video of a Palestinian's home in the West Bank being demolished or a Palestinian family being harassed by armed settlers
  - pgalvin 2y ago
    I think you might have misinterpreted the comment above you. I took it to mean that there are a set of circumstances unique to Gaza that cause greater conflict between it and Israel than between the West Bank and Israel, which is not sufficiently explained by generational trauma alone.
jncfhnb 2y ago
This is the narrative that the extremists want to push, but it’s hardly the truth. Hamas was not some grassroots movement of frustrated Palestinians. It was an Iranian proxy force masterminded, funded, supplied, trained, and instructed by Iran. There are certainly many angry Palestinians before and after but this is foreign meddling through and through. Hamas would not exist in this form and have done the things that it did otherwise.
robertwt7 2y ago
I don't understand how is this different to all wars? back then when the Nazis started the war and we had to declare war against them. Or when we nuked 2 cities of Japan, were we also afraid that we will create multiple generations of anger and hate? how is this different? I'm not comparing Israel or Palestine to Nazi, it's just a bitter fact that war always create anger and hate. Something had to be done though?
- verdverm 2y ago
  After WW2, (west) Germany was given massive support. We helped to rebuild the country. Same for Japan. Will we (and/or Israel) do the same for Gaza? What about Lebanon and Syria? We certainly failed at this in Iraq and Afghanistan, did we learn any lessons? Will the incoming US Administration fumble this opportunity? As Stephen Kotkin likes to say "You can win the war and lose the peace. You can also lose the war and win the peace" What comes after the war is as important, maybe more so, than the war itself
  - Tainnor 2y ago
    If you take the analogy further, Germany also completely surrendered after WWII and came up with a new, democratic government. In the meantime, 12-16 millions of Germans were driven out of their homes in East Prussia never to return. It wasn't until 1990 that the (now reunited) Germany finally renounced all claims to their lost territory.
foxglacier 2y ago
[flagged]
- khaledh 2y ago
  You've got your history mixed up. It was the Christians who persecuted Jews throughout history, culminating in the holocaust by, guess who, Christians. Jews thrived under Muslim rule during the middle ages.
  - foxglacier 2y ago
    That's ancient history. The reality today is widespread anti-Semitism among Muslims and it's backed by Mohammed. Up till the holocaust, basically everyone hated the Jews. After that, Christians changed their mind and Muslims doubled down. The Palestinians collaborated with Hitler because he promised to help them get rid of their Jews too.
firen777 2y ago
> Israel has likely also created multiple generations of anger and hate against themselves Israel would have created multiple generations of emboldened anger and hate against themselves if they failed to respond to the massacre and mass kidnapping.
spencerflem 2y ago
In 50 years there will be no Palestine :c
imgabe 2y ago
They already hated Israel. So much that they attacked them and started this war in the first place. I doubt Israel is any worse off in terms of being hated than they were before the war. Hamas is not a rational actor. Their stated goal is to destroy Israel and kill every Jew. That's it. There is no scenario in which they are going to stop hating Israel. They don't care if every Palestinian also gets killed, if they get to destroy Israel it's worth it to them.

Cyph0n 2y ago

Perhaps weakened them from an equipment & infrastructure standpoint - along with the rest of Gaza - but not from a manpower standpoint: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2025-01-14/blinken-says-new-hamas-recruits-have-nearly-replaced-war-losses https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2025-01-14/blinken-s... The right way to fight an independence movement is to either do so from within/in a more targeted fashion, or barring that, meet their demands in some shape or form. Escalating the violence to the point where you’re destroying and displacing a people might settle things down in the short term, but the movement will not die, and will more than likely grow.

halflife 2y ago
The difference being that the new manpower has zero experience, is mostly kids and has no leadership. They reverted from a terrorist army, to an unorganized guerilla
- Cyph0n 2y ago
  Sure, but they are at least motivated; anyone would be after witnessing their family, friends, or neighbors being wiped out by “precision” bombing.
  - halflife 2y ago
    No matter how motivated they are, without weapon and training they pose much less risk than an army
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
trhway 2y ago
[flagged]
- Cyph0n 2y ago
  Isis was never a legitimate independence movement. It was an expansionist terrorist group built on - quite literally - terror and anarchy. It worked for a while because the conditions were suitable in Syria and Iraq. A true anti-colonial, independence movement does not die that easily. Across history, freedom & returning to one’s land are the greatest motivators of all.

xg15 2y ago

Good points there. Still not sure how much the ouster of Assad was connected with the war (though no doubt that the weakening of Hezbollah must have contributed a lot to it) but it definitely changed the playing field.

jncfhnb 2y ago
It was 100% driven by the weakness in Hezbollah and Russia and Iran. There’s no doubt.

hmcq6 2y ago

[flagged]

Jarwain 2y ago
What was Oct 7th retaliation to, exactly?
- jsheard 2y ago
  It's a mystery: https://cdn.statcdn.com/Infographic/images/normal/16516.jpeg https://cdn.statcdn.com/Infographic/images/normal/16516.jpeg None of this started on Oct 7th, the inciting incident was the founding of Israel itself on top of an existing state with an existing population who were violently expelled to make way. Everything else is just ongoing fallout from that.
  - dotancohen 2y ago
    What existing state was Israel founded on top of?
  - halflife 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - jedimind 2y ago
      >So the side that dies more has the moral high ground in your opinion? No the side that has been ethnically cleansed and colonized for 75+ years and made refugees in their own land have the moral high-ground. Palestinians have every right to resist to the evil they have been subjected to for almost a century. [1] https://web.archive.org/web/20231029055310/ojp.gov/ncjrs/virtual-library/abstracts/jewish-zionist-terrorism-and-establishment-israel https://web.archive.org/web/20231029055310/ojp.gov/ncjrs/vir... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irgun https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irgun [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_extremist_terrorism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_extremist_terrorism

FireBeyond 2y ago

> Israel's main adversary is Iran. They are the ones who fund and supply Hamas Well, Israel started and has been funding Hamas (I'm assuming, but who knows, that it stopped with this war) since the PLO/Arafat days to the tune of (at times tens of) millions a month.

ars 2y ago
That's not actually true. First Israel didn't fund them, they allowed others to fund them, second the Hamas back then was not the terrorists of today, they changed.
golergka 2y ago
[flagged]
- hmcq6 2y ago
  > According to various reports, Netanyahu made a similar point at a Likud faction meeting in early 2019, when he was quoted as saying that those who oppose a Palestinian state should support the transfer of funds to Gaza, because maintaining the separation between the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank and Hamas in Gaza would prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state. https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up... You're literally doing revisionist history right now.
  - golergka 2y ago
    [flagged]

gitdowndirty 2y ago

Not only is Hamas weakened, Hamas' and Iran's supporter (China, Russia) has been severely weakened compared to the start of the conflict. Russia is in a stalemate in the Ukraine invasion, and has lost significant economic and military resources since. Russia also lost significant influence in Middle East, with the Assad regime fall. China is a severe economic decline. Also, China distanced itself from Iran, most likely due to wanting to not get sanctioned by US and Europe. https://thediplomat.com/2024/11/china-is-recalculating-its-middle-east-policy/ https://thediplomat.com/2024/11/china-is-recalculating-its-m....

forgotoldacc 2y ago

> During all of this, Assad was deposed. And we've yet to see whether this is a good thing. Gaddafi was seen as one of the most oppressive figures in the world during his lifetime. A few countries made it their goal to take him down and liberate the people of Libya. Gaddafi was killed, Libya was free, and the media celebrated. Just like with Syria, media coverage was down to basically zero about a month after that happened and everyone was left thinking it was a job well done. Turns out Libya has been worse than it ever was under Gaddafi. Having an oppressive albeit relatively secular leader who maintained a stable hold on the country turned out to be better than an oppressive non-secular mess.

myth_drannon 2y ago

The monsters are still there and already planning their next attempt in genocide. While the hostages coming back is a welcome news, none of war objectives were achieved. All the sacrifices were pointless if Israel exits Gaza and leaves Hamas in control (weakened is but still in control). Netanyahu again showed that he is a coward and easily pressured and has a pathological fear of a conflict. With thousands of monsters being released back into Gaza I fear the next 7 October will be worse.