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It's actually a useful device when you like to pull an analogy. Instead of explaining the whole idea, you throw a jargon and everyone constructs the rest in the
by mrtksn 2y ago
It's actually a useful device when you like to pull an analogy. Instead of explaining the whole idea, you throw a jargon and everyone constructs the rest in their head and understand it and know how to work with it. The whole point of jargon is to have precise definitions, so it works as a rails and compression for ideas.
- JackFr 2y ago> The whole point of jargon is to have precise definitions Well, not always. Per Webster: 1: the technical terminology or characteristic idiom of a special activity or group 2: obscure and often pretentious language marked by circumlocutions and long words It would be great if it were only (1) but I’d often (2)
- ffsm8 2y agoThese 1 and 2 are pretty much always apply at the same time. Wherever 1 or 2 applies just depends on how used you're to the usage of said jargon.
- monitorlizard 2y agoJargon feels like 1 for the ingroup and 2 for the outgroup.
- mrtksn 2y agoThese are some effects of a jargon but the reason for its existence is precision. You learn it in an institution and then you are on the same page and there's no ambiguity over its meaning. Using jargon with a layperson is useless and could be stupid or pretentious.
- jonahx 2y ago> but the reason for its existence is precision In some cases yes, but the majority of the time jargon is primarily used as a shibboleth to establish group identity, camaraderie, and a sense of exclusivity.
- mrtksn 2y agoI don't know why is this obsession over jargon. I know the cliche, it's not true at all except when you misuse it. Maybe can be used as part of a fraud or some power move or something like that but its intended use case is a shortcut to predefined ideas. It may have side effects but that doesn't mean that those side effects are the reason to exist.
- jonahx 2y agoI am making an empirical statement. The majority of its actual use in life is to achieve social/political ends, not to improve communication. If you want to say the majority of its use is misuse, fine. But the misuse is intentional.
- mrtksn 2y agoI disagree entirely, jargon use is to help us from keeping defining things so we can move on to the next problem. How do you even use "unsprung weight" or "distributed cache" for social or political ends? Maybe it can be used at some cringe encounter with layperson but that's not at all what jargon is used for.
- jonahx 2y agoSomething like "distributed cache" is valid jargon. I already conceded that it can be useful. But the majority of it (by raw numbers) is the kind of stuff of the OP is lampooning -- business and office jargon. Of course there is plenty of scientific and mathematical jargon that's legitimate shorthand. Even there, however, the line blurs. That is, you have terms with legitimate use that were poorly chosen. Sometimes the poor choice is historical accident, but often it's motivated by a desire to sound more impressive and complicated that it is. Something like "applicative functor" might fall into this category.
- kelnos 2y agoI absolutely agree that some people use jargon as a gatekeeping device or an in-group detector, and that's lame. But jargon does have value in communication where you know the person you're talking to understands it at the level you do. Jargon, when used well, can let you be simultaneously more precise and more terse. Think about times you've sent email or even just chat messages to different professional audiences. You're probably going to use different language when talking to a manager vs. a sales person vs. an engineer. I'm not talking about level of formality; the actual language you use to describe the topic at hand will change. Some of that will be a matter of the level of detail you provide, but some of it will likely include jargon (when you're conversing with someone in the same "group" as you), and you might not even realize it.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- rkagerer 2y agoJargon like that in the link makes the message less precise and more meaningless, in my view. Just simply state what you mean. Let the other person ask questions if they need clarification.
- mrtksn 2y agoThat's good when you explain something technical to a layman, I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about explaining non-technical issue to a technical person using jargon for analogy. For example you can use P2P to explain how some gossip spread or you can say that your relationship with SO is like UDP recently.
- luke-stanley 2y agoSo it's low latency and fast but in some contexts, firewalled?
- mrtksn 2y agoIt's like can't tell if she heard you
- jonahx 2y agoHow is "like UDP" clearer than just saying that?
- mrtksn 2y agoIt's not clearer, it's deeper. It implies a state and creates an image in the listeners mind. You can throw it casually when explaining something and your audience now has an image in their head so you can explain the actual thing you are after. Jargons are shortcuts to pre-agreed ideas. Just a tool.
- jonahx 2y ago
- bitwize 2y agoOffice jargon in particular fulfills a social signalling role rather than a clear communication role. It's intended to tell upper management: "I'm one of you guys, please look kindly upon me and maybe promote me!" But there's a dynamic similar to that of "U" English vs. "non-U English"[0], as upper management is more likely to say things like "Just get the fucking thing shipped. Our business depends on it." [0] It turns out that in England, upper-class aspirants are likely to use posher phrases and idioms than actual upper-class people, as the latter are aware of their own and others' social status and have no need for verbal affectations to communicate it. See: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/U_and_non-U_English https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/U_and_non-U_English
- holtkam2 2y agoYeah and an "artifact" of that "compression" is the "signal" that "you're a dork"
- mrtksn 2y agoJargon should be used only with the appropriate audience, obviously.
- pastaguy1 2y agoJargon is everywhere but office jargon is its own sub genre. For office jargon, it's maybe not a practical matter, but I could see a friend being a little put off by someone speaking in office jargon to them. Office jargon is sort of impersonal by design
- drewcoo 2y agoJargon is as much about social signaling as anything else. Consider Cockney Rhyming Slang, which is intended to be insider-only speech. Consider the rise and then mass-adoption of Valley Girl.
- mrtksn 2y agoIMHO office jargon is just as useful but because it's not technical its harder to adjust. >Office jargon is sort of impersonal by design That's one of it's functions. Instead of going over each time that the thing happening isn't personal and shouldn't be taken as such, you can utilize the jargon to keep it clean. After all, it's just a job where everyone tries to play their role to produce something. It hurts much more badly if you confuse the office work for a social interaction and things don't pan out at some point.
- PakistaniDenzel 2y agoit only works with other white collar people who have heard the same jargon, normal people in the real world just won't understand what you're saying, so it's just bad communication
- mrtksn 2y agoThat's right, with jargons the audience is the key.
- angoragoats 2y agoExcept that with e.g. technical jargon, the audience is important because non-technical people don’t have the training/experience to understand what’s being said. With office jargon, I understand everything being said, but the majority of it could be stated more simply and clearly without the use of it. This type of jargon is a social signaling tool, not a useful shortcut or simplification (again, most of the time). It’s also harder to parse for non-native speakers of English.
- stavros 2y agoYeah, and then you sound like a jargoff.