4 ms·

I think if we need the big bad lever, it should at least require congressional approval.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
JumpCrisscross 2y ago
> if we need the big bad lever, it should at least require congressional approval What is the big bad lever? If you're suggesting the Congress directly regulate monetary policy, one, Argentina. Two, do you remember the second-largest bank failure in the history of our republic two years ago [1]? What about the third and fourth? Would you prefer a depression every time some twat at Silicon Valley Bank forgets numbers can go down? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_bank_failures_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_bank_failures_...
- asdasdsddd 2y ago
  Congress already manages the budget, another bomb, but year after year, they get over themselves and raise the debt ceiling, so yes I think they can handle approving changes to the amount of credit in America.
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    > they can handle approving changes to the amount of credit in America The Fed doesn't control the amount of credit in America. It influences it by influencing rates by controlling how many assets it owns. You want the Congress dictating buy/sell orders for Treasuries (and whatever other assets they can think of) to the Fed? At that point just go full MMT [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_monetary_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_monetary_theory
    - asdasdsddd 2y ago
      I don't understand your point, the Fed is a creature of congress and its members are selected by both the legislative and the executive, but we cede enormous power by giving board members giant terms which gives them defacto independence which is insane since they have the power to make me default on my mortgage tmrw. Monetary policy is policy and all policy should go thru congress. If congress is being useless, vote them out.
      - AnimalMuppet 2y ago
        The Fed makes decisions for technical reasons, not political ones. That's a feature, not a bug. I personally do not want a boom every 2 years just before the election, as congressmembers try desperately to make the economy look good, followed by a bust just after the election, as their medium-to-long-term-bad-ideas get shown to be bad.
        deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
      - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
        > Monetary policy is policy and all policy should go thru congress Should the Congress also make play-by-play battle calls in war? Let's dissolve the DoJ, too, and have the Congress prosecute and investigate, à la Athens. > If congress is being useless, vote them out Again, Argentina. Electeds always want rates lower and spending higher. (Rich people who can store their wealth offshore, even moreso.)
        asdasdsddd 2y ago
        > Should the Congress also make play-by-play battle calls in war? No thats obviously the executive? > Again, Argentina. Electeds always want rates lower and spending higher. (Rich people who can store their wealth offshore, even moreso.) Yes this is how democracy works, if people are dumb, then things go bad. The point of democracy is that you have to take a leap of faith and hope people make good decisions. If you don't like this, we can just revert to totalitarianism. You might think I'm saying this tongue in cheek but I'm not, there's a real argument that modernity is too complex for democracy.
AnimalMuppet 2y ago
The economy is enough of a mess as it is. Do you want to give Congress control of it? No thanks.
- asdasdsddd 2y ago
  You mean the people we elect to create policies?
  - AnimalMuppet 2y ago
    No, Congress is the ones we elect to create legislation. The executive branch hires people (hopefully experts) to create policies. This matters, because policies need to be more coherent than most legislation that Congress passes. Something like a Fed policy absolutely needs to be better thought out than what Congress can produce. Do you really want a Fed "policy" that is the kind of 1500-page monstrosity that Congress creates? Do you really want Marjory Taylor Green and AOC to be writing Fed policy? Bernie and Mitch McConnell? Do you think that's going to produce something better than an independent Fed? It won't. No, the reason people want a political Fed is because they want their politics to guide the Fed. But a political Fed, at least some of the time, will have the other side writing its policy? Do you really want that? I don't think you do.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

> if we need the big bad lever, it should at least require congressional approval What is the big bad lever? If you're suggesting the Congress directly regulate monetary policy, one, Argentina. Two, do you remember the second-largest bank failure in the history of our republic two years ago [1]? What about the third and fourth? Would you prefer a depression every time some twat at Silicon Valley Bank forgets numbers can go down? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_bank_failures_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_bank_failures_...

asdasdsddd 2y ago
Congress already manages the budget, another bomb, but year after year, they get over themselves and raise the debt ceiling, so yes I think they can handle approving changes to the amount of credit in America.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > they can handle approving changes to the amount of credit in America The Fed doesn't control the amount of credit in America. It influences it by influencing rates by controlling how many assets it owns. You want the Congress dictating buy/sell orders for Treasuries (and whatever other assets they can think of) to the Fed? At that point just go full MMT [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_monetary_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_monetary_theory
  - asdasdsddd 2y ago
    I don't understand your point, the Fed is a creature of congress and its members are selected by both the legislative and the executive, but we cede enormous power by giving board members giant terms which gives them defacto independence which is insane since they have the power to make me default on my mortgage tmrw. Monetary policy is policy and all policy should go thru congress. If congress is being useless, vote them out.
    - AnimalMuppet 2y ago
      The Fed makes decisions for technical reasons, not political ones. That's a feature, not a bug. I personally do not want a boom every 2 years just before the election, as congressmembers try desperately to make the economy look good, followed by a bust just after the election, as their medium-to-long-term-bad-ideas get shown to be bad.
      - deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
    - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
      > Monetary policy is policy and all policy should go thru congress Should the Congress also make play-by-play battle calls in war? Let's dissolve the DoJ, too, and have the Congress prosecute and investigate, à la Athens. > If congress is being useless, vote them out Again, Argentina. Electeds always want rates lower and spending higher. (Rich people who can store their wealth offshore, even moreso.)
      - asdasdsddd 2y ago
        > Should the Congress also make play-by-play battle calls in war? No thats obviously the executive? > Again, Argentina. Electeds always want rates lower and spending higher. (Rich people who can store their wealth offshore, even moreso.) Yes this is how democracy works, if people are dumb, then things go bad. The point of democracy is that you have to take a leap of faith and hope people make good decisions. If you don't like this, we can just revert to totalitarianism. You might think I'm saying this tongue in cheek but I'm not, there's a real argument that modernity is too complex for democracy.

AnimalMuppet 2y ago

The economy is enough of a mess as it is. Do you want to give Congress control of it? No thanks.

asdasdsddd 2y ago
You mean the people we elect to create policies?
- AnimalMuppet 2y ago
  No, Congress is the ones we elect to create legislation. The executive branch hires people (hopefully experts) to create policies. This matters, because policies need to be more coherent than most legislation that Congress passes. Something like a Fed policy absolutely needs to be better thought out than what Congress can produce. Do you really want a Fed "policy" that is the kind of 1500-page monstrosity that Congress creates? Do you really want Marjory Taylor Green and AOC to be writing Fed policy? Bernie and Mitch McConnell? Do you think that's going to produce something better than an independent Fed? It won't. No, the reason people want a political Fed is because they want their politics to guide the Fed. But a political Fed, at least some of the time, will have the other side writing its policy? Do you really want that? I don't think you do.