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Another protectionist measure to help the laggards in the us auto industry. Will they be condemned to serve just the US market while the Chinese firms eat the r

Another protectionist measure to help the laggards in the us auto industry. Will they be condemned to serve just the US market while the Chinese firms eat the rest of South America, Africa, Asia, and Europe?

ch_sm 2y ago
Europe too seems willing to install protectionist policies to help its own laggards while they’re trying to "catch up". However, it seems unlikely the me that they will (on the long term) — unless they find some huge surprise reservoir of rare earths somewhere within their borders.
- _aavaa_ 2y ago
  I’m not sure how much they will add at this point, Chinese brands are already selling in Europe. BMW meanwhile is wasting more time on fuel cells.
likeabatterycar 2y ago
The Chinese auto industry was built upon IP theft from the Americans and Germans. F them.
- _aavaa_ 2y ago
  So they stole EV IP and then created better and cheaper versions of cars that most Americans and German companies don’t sell?
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - Our_Benefactors 2y ago
    > better and cheaper Well they are definitely cheaper
    - _aavaa_ 2y ago
      Same arguments as when the Japanese brands entered the NA market.
      - ricardobeat 2y ago
        Except the US had not willfully transferred to Japan all its best engineers and designers, steel production, factories and entire supply chains. The argument is ten times as dumb now.
    - slaw 2y ago
      Ford CEO thinks Chinese EVs are better. https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a62694325/ford-ceo-jim-farley-daily-drives-xiaomi-su7/ https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a62694325/ford-ceo-jim-far...
- rchaud 2y ago
  "IP theft" is an extremely broad term, especially as it seems to be applied to every single Chinese industry. What was stolen? Who was found guilty of that theft? Without clear specifics, it's about as relevant as saying Jobs stole the idea of MacOS from a Xerox PARC demo. Ideas are cheap, execution is what matters.
- marssaxman 2y ago
  It's only fair, given that the American industrial revolution itself was built on IP theft; every developing nation takes its turn. "Intellectual property" is an economic policy, not a moral imperative.
  - orbital-decay 2y ago
    It can be both, and the balance shifts to whichever option is more convenient at the time.
- ricardobeat 2y ago
  They’ve actually hired most of the brains that used to work for western auto makers. That’s the free market at work.
- hulitu 2y ago
  > The Chinese auto industry was built upon IP theft from the Americans You mean 4 wheels and a steering wheel ? /s US stopped having IP in cars a long time ago. Damn, even Ford wanted to close its shop some years ago.
rstuart4133 2y ago
> Another protectionist measure to help the laggards in the us auto industry. Maybe. I would not be surprised if the was some lobbying in that direction. But the USA has also recently had it's communications ripped a new one by hackers. Not once, but several times, and they've been able to spy on the communications of the highest levels of government. That sounds bad enough, but its fairly benign compare to what could happen. For example, I amazed to discover my solar inverter was controlled by a web site in China. I hate it in general, but to be fair to China this delegation of control is everywhere and is done every country - for example I guess most Chinese mobile phones are controlled by Apple and/or Google. It's all pretty harmless I guess when we are all getting along. But if China and Australia suddenly weren't getting along it means China could literally shut off Australia power grid, as during the day it's not uncommon for Australia to get most of its power from household solar. There is no need for the sort of subterfuge the USA had to pull with getting Stuxnet into the Iraqi centrifuges, as China already has control over a large part of Australia's power generation. If they can program those inverters to change their phase they can probably take out the entire grid. And now if China wins the bulk of the car market (which seems like a distinct possibility), they could also have control over most of the cars in the USA, along with their video and sensor feeds. This must be the stuff of nightmares in some quarters. How did we let ourselves get into the situation that allows a robot vacuum send photos of us on the shitter back to a foreign country, without our knowledge? It's just insane. And while I understand the motivation in this case, this ban isn't the solution. It needs to go far deeper.

ch_sm 2y ago

Europe too seems willing to install protectionist policies to help its own laggards while they’re trying to "catch up". However, it seems unlikely the me that they will (on the long term) — unless they find some huge surprise reservoir of rare earths somewhere within their borders.

_aavaa_ 2y ago
I’m not sure how much they will add at this point, Chinese brands are already selling in Europe. BMW meanwhile is wasting more time on fuel cells.

likeabatterycar 2y ago

The Chinese auto industry was built upon IP theft from the Americans and Germans. F them.

_aavaa_ 2y ago
So they stole EV IP and then created better and cheaper versions of cars that most Americans and German companies don’t sell?
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- Our_Benefactors 2y ago
  > better and cheaper Well they are definitely cheaper
  - _aavaa_ 2y ago
    Same arguments as when the Japanese brands entered the NA market.
    - ricardobeat 2y ago
      Except the US had not willfully transferred to Japan all its best engineers and designers, steel production, factories and entire supply chains. The argument is ten times as dumb now.
  - slaw 2y ago
    Ford CEO thinks Chinese EVs are better. https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a62694325/ford-ceo-jim-farley-daily-drives-xiaomi-su7/ https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a62694325/ford-ceo-jim-far...
rchaud 2y ago
"IP theft" is an extremely broad term, especially as it seems to be applied to every single Chinese industry. What was stolen? Who was found guilty of that theft? Without clear specifics, it's about as relevant as saying Jobs stole the idea of MacOS from a Xerox PARC demo. Ideas are cheap, execution is what matters.
marssaxman 2y ago
It's only fair, given that the American industrial revolution itself was built on IP theft; every developing nation takes its turn. "Intellectual property" is an economic policy, not a moral imperative.
- orbital-decay 2y ago
  It can be both, and the balance shifts to whichever option is more convenient at the time.
ricardobeat 2y ago
They’ve actually hired most of the brains that used to work for western auto makers. That’s the free market at work.
hulitu 2y ago
> The Chinese auto industry was built upon IP theft from the Americans You mean 4 wheels and a steering wheel ? /s US stopped having IP in cars a long time ago. Damn, even Ford wanted to close its shop some years ago.

rstuart4133 2y ago

> Another protectionist measure to help the laggards in the us auto industry. Maybe. I would not be surprised if the was some lobbying in that direction. But the USA has also recently had it's communications ripped a new one by hackers. Not once, but several times, and they've been able to spy on the communications of the highest levels of government. That sounds bad enough, but its fairly benign compare to what could happen. For example, I amazed to discover my solar inverter was controlled by a web site in China. I hate it in general, but to be fair to China this delegation of control is everywhere and is done every country - for example I guess most Chinese mobile phones are controlled by Apple and/or Google. It's all pretty harmless I guess when we are all getting along. But if China and Australia suddenly weren't getting along it means China could literally shut off Australia power grid, as during the day it's not uncommon for Australia to get most of its power from household solar. There is no need for the sort of subterfuge the USA had to pull with getting Stuxnet into the Iraqi centrifuges, as China already has control over a large part of Australia's power generation. If they can program those inverters to change their phase they can probably take out the entire grid. And now if China wins the bulk of the car market (which seems like a distinct possibility), they could also have control over most of the cars in the USA, along with their video and sensor feeds. This must be the stuff of nightmares in some quarters. How did we let ourselves get into the situation that allows a robot vacuum send photos of us on the shitter back to a foreign country, without our knowledge? It's just insane. And while I understand the motivation in this case, this ban isn't the solution. It needs to go far deeper.