4 ms·

I hadn't heard of rope data structures until I read about the xi editor (also written in Rust) a few years ago, but it looks like that's been discontinued. htt

I hadn't heard of rope data structures until I read about the xi editor (also written in Rust) a few years ago, but it looks like that's been discontinued. https://github.com/xi-editor/xi-editor https://github.com/xi-editor/xi-editor

kibwen 2y ago
The authors of Xi are currently working on Xilem, an experimental reactive UI framework for Rust: https://github.com/linebender/xilem https://github.com/linebender/xilem In the announcement post, they mention that work on Xi is considered "on hold" rather than strictly discontinued: https://raphlinus.github.io/rust/gui/2022/05/07/ui-architecture.html https://raphlinus.github.io/rust/gui/2022/05/07/ui-architect...
- infogulch 2y ago
  Legendary-tier yak shaving. "I want to build an editor, but first I must solve rendering 2D graphics purely on the GPU, invent a parallelizable path solver, and code a human perception-based color value manipulation library."
  - PoignardAzur 2y ago
    You have no idea. I think we're at five or six levels of yaks by now. (xi -> xilem -> masonry -> vello -> peniko -> color)
  - bbkane 2y ago
    It's a lot of fun to follow, especially as its so different than my developmental expertise. You can see the current projects (13 active) on https://linebender.org https://linebender.org , and several members post interesting checkins in https://xi.zulipchat.com/ https://xi.zulipchat.com/
  - kstrauser 2y ago
    This is the path to Enlightenment (17).
    - mech422 2y ago
      They just had a release as well :-) It doesn't really seem to get much press anymore... Back in the 'early days' - wow! E! was something pretty special :-D
      - kstrauser 2y ago
        E15 or so was mindblowing at the time. It was living in a sci-fi movie.
  - mananaysiempre 2y ago
    > first I must solve rendering 2D graphics purely on the GPU To be fair, the original author of Xi ('raphlinus) has been working on GPU-side 2D rendering much longer than on Xi.
- amanda99 2y ago
  Repo says "discontinued".
  - daveguy 2y ago
    Yes, the xi repo is discontinued. They recommend the lapce editor as the spiritual successor: https://github.com/lapce/lapce https://github.com/lapce/lapce
    - satvikpendem 2y ago
      I'd also recommend Helix [0] (which also uses the rope data structure [1]), that's a more widely used editor also written in Rust. [0] https://github.com/helix-editor/helix https://github.com/helix-editor/helix [1] https://github.com/helix-editor/helix/blob/master/docs/architecture.md https://github.com/helix-editor/helix/blob/master/docs/archi...
      - VeejayRampay 2y ago
        helix is a really really good text editor / terminal IDE I'm seriously impressed by the level of quality out of the box
      - jll29 2y ago
        This looks pretty cool - except... modes like in vi are a no-go area; has anyone tried to modify the GUI (key bindings) to make it similar to Emacs or Notepad? The extra keypress for switching between "i" (inserting text) "ESC" (moving cursor) "i"... would drive me insane (just not used to it, but used to very fast, friction-free typing/editing).
        satvikpendem 2y ago
        There might be mods but it is fundamentally built around those vi like keybindings so you'll be fighting an uphill battle.
        sandbach 2y ago
itishappy 2y ago
Zed uses something similar to ropes as well: https://zed.dev/blog/zed-decoded-rope-sumtree https://zed.dev/blog/zed-decoded-rope-sumtree
- PittleyDunkin 2y ago
  Zed seems to be a gui-oriented editor here: https://zed.dev/ https://zed.dev/
  - supriyo-biswas 2y ago
    You still need a backing data structure that holds the contents of your editor, and that's where you'd use a rope.
- infogulch 2y ago
  Zed's Sum Tree is my favorite datastructure ever and is the future of database indexes.
  - senderista 2y ago
    I think this is what Guy Steele called a "monoid-cached tree": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftcIcn8AmSY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftcIcn8AmSY
    - infogulch 2y ago
      Cool talk, thanks for sharing!
secondcoming 2y ago
Is it even possible to write any text editor without some form of rope data structure?
- caconym_ 2y ago
  Gap buffers are the other classic option, and there are others too, e.g. piece tables.
- cschmidt 2y ago
  Here's a paper reviewing the various choices, that is often mentioned in discussions around data structures for text editors: https://www.cs.unm.edu/~crowley/papers/sds.pdf https://www.cs.unm.edu/~crowley/papers/sds.pdf
- marssaxman 2y ago
  Most certainly: gap buffers, piece tables, and line arrays are also popular choices.
- ben-schaaf 2y ago
  VSCode uses a piece table (https://code.visualstudio.com/blogs/2018/03/23/text-buffer-reimplementation https://code.visualstudio.com/blogs/2018/03/23/text-buffer-r...).
  - canucker2016 2y ago
    MS Word used piece table, which led to the "fast save" feature - which saved only the newer pieces.

kibwen 2y ago

The authors of Xi are currently working on Xilem, an experimental reactive UI framework for Rust: https://github.com/linebender/xilem https://github.com/linebender/xilem In the announcement post, they mention that work on Xi is considered "on hold" rather than strictly discontinued: https://raphlinus.github.io/rust/gui/2022/05/07/ui-architecture.html https://raphlinus.github.io/rust/gui/2022/05/07/ui-architect...

infogulch 2y ago
Legendary-tier yak shaving. "I want to build an editor, but first I must solve rendering 2D graphics purely on the GPU, invent a parallelizable path solver, and code a human perception-based color value manipulation library."
- PoignardAzur 2y ago
  You have no idea. I think we're at five or six levels of yaks by now. (xi -> xilem -> masonry -> vello -> peniko -> color)
- bbkane 2y ago
  It's a lot of fun to follow, especially as its so different than my developmental expertise. You can see the current projects (13 active) on https://linebender.org https://linebender.org , and several members post interesting checkins in https://xi.zulipchat.com/ https://xi.zulipchat.com/
- kstrauser 2y ago
  This is the path to Enlightenment (17).
  - mech422 2y ago
    They just had a release as well :-) It doesn't really seem to get much press anymore... Back in the 'early days' - wow! E! was something pretty special :-D
    - kstrauser 2y ago
      E15 or so was mindblowing at the time. It was living in a sci-fi movie.
- mananaysiempre 2y ago
  > first I must solve rendering 2D graphics purely on the GPU To be fair, the original author of Xi ('raphlinus) has been working on GPU-side 2D rendering much longer than on Xi.
amanda99 2y ago
Repo says "discontinued".
- daveguy 2y ago
  Yes, the xi repo is discontinued. They recommend the lapce editor as the spiritual successor: https://github.com/lapce/lapce https://github.com/lapce/lapce
  - satvikpendem 2y ago
    I'd also recommend Helix [0] (which also uses the rope data structure [1]), that's a more widely used editor also written in Rust. [0] https://github.com/helix-editor/helix https://github.com/helix-editor/helix [1] https://github.com/helix-editor/helix/blob/master/docs/architecture.md https://github.com/helix-editor/helix/blob/master/docs/archi...
    - VeejayRampay 2y ago
      helix is a really really good text editor / terminal IDE I'm seriously impressed by the level of quality out of the box
    - jll29 2y ago
      This looks pretty cool - except... modes like in vi are a no-go area; has anyone tried to modify the GUI (key bindings) to make it similar to Emacs or Notepad? The extra keypress for switching between "i" (inserting text) "ESC" (moving cursor) "i"... would drive me insane (just not used to it, but used to very fast, friction-free typing/editing).
      - satvikpendem 2y ago
        There might be mods but it is fundamentally built around those vi like keybindings so you'll be fighting an uphill battle.
      - sandbach 2y ago

itishappy 2y ago

Zed uses something similar to ropes as well: https://zed.dev/blog/zed-decoded-rope-sumtree https://zed.dev/blog/zed-decoded-rope-sumtree

PittleyDunkin 2y ago
Zed seems to be a gui-oriented editor here: https://zed.dev/ https://zed.dev/
- supriyo-biswas 2y ago
  You still need a backing data structure that holds the contents of your editor, and that's where you'd use a rope.
infogulch 2y ago
Zed's Sum Tree is my favorite datastructure ever and is the future of database indexes.
- senderista 2y ago
  I think this is what Guy Steele called a "monoid-cached tree": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftcIcn8AmSY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftcIcn8AmSY
  - infogulch 2y ago
    Cool talk, thanks for sharing!

secondcoming 2y ago

Is it even possible to write any text editor without some form of rope data structure?

caconym_ 2y ago
Gap buffers are the other classic option, and there are others too, e.g. piece tables.
cschmidt 2y ago
Here's a paper reviewing the various choices, that is often mentioned in discussions around data structures for text editors: https://www.cs.unm.edu/~crowley/papers/sds.pdf https://www.cs.unm.edu/~crowley/papers/sds.pdf
marssaxman 2y ago
Most certainly: gap buffers, piece tables, and line arrays are also popular choices.
ben-schaaf 2y ago
VSCode uses a piece table (https://code.visualstudio.com/blogs/2018/03/23/text-buffer-reimplementation https://code.visualstudio.com/blogs/2018/03/23/text-buffer-r...).
- canucker2016 2y ago
  MS Word used piece table, which led to the "fast save" feature - which saved only the newer pieces.